Israel's growing conflict

MA-Caver

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Israeli troops invade Gaza; lengthy fight expected

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ml_israel_palestinians
By IBRAHIM BARZAK and JASON KEYSER, Associated Press Writers Ibrahim Barzak And Jason Keyser, Associated Press Writers 3 mins ago

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip Thousands of Israeli troops backed by columns of tanks and helicopter gunships launched a ground offensive in Gaza Saturday night, with officials saying they expected a lengthy fight in the densely populated territory after eight days of punishing airstrikes failed to halt militant rocket attacks on Israel.
The incursion set off fierce clashes with Palestinian militants and Gaza's Hamas rulers vowed the coastal strip would be a "graveyard" for Israelis forces.
Somehow this is going to just get worse since almost every middle eastern nation has a deep hatred of Israel and those who support her.
It's known that tiny country has nukes and it's likely we're going to see an exchange unless some diplomatic solution is found and that right soon.
I fear for the region and I fear for us who will likely receive retaliatory strikes via terrorism here and abroad should we show support for Israel.
Or will this just simply blow over as a prelude to something bigger over the next horizon?
 

grydth

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There's only going to be a nuclear exchange when one of the hating countries has a nuke to throw at israel.... give the death cult running Iran a couple of more years and the peace of the cemetery will enfold the entire region.

For now, this will get very bloody and very costly in a conventional sense. Urban fighting almost always does with 2 determined combatants. Even though Israel has by far the better army, the Hamas fighters know their home neighborhoods and will be motivated by defending their own homes.

It seems as if the Israeli government may have decided it has no other option but to destroy Hamas power in the Gaza strip... but if Hamas finds a way to cause a casualty spike among Israeli ground forces, will their government's resolution hold?

Just because many nations do not like Israel does not mean they will actively fight them. Egypt would probably like to see both Hamas and Israel out of Gaza.... they don't want or need Iran's cat's paw on their back porch, either.
 

Big Don

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As nice an idea as a diplomatic solution is, anyone who thinks Israel or anyone else can negotiate with terrorists is a damn fool.
Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005 and supposedly, that was going to stop the terrorism. More rockets have fallen on Israel since 2005 than before. Diplomacy only works when ALL sides involved are sane and honest. Terrorists, being neither sane nor honest are not people rational people should ever try to negotiate with. Those that want to kill you, just to see you die, are not people you can trust, ever.
 

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I'd like to address a few things mentioned here:

MA-Caver: Not every Middle Eastern country has a deep hatred for Israel. Egypt, a major player in the Arab world, has been criticizing Hamas for the most part. Also, America is already being "retaliated" against because of their support for Israel - Jihad against America was declared primarily for this reason (and American military presence on Muslim soil).

grydth: Egypt is actually reluctant to take control of the Gaza Strip themselves, nor do they want Israel out of it. Egypt had control of the Gaza strip until 1967, they never bothered to advance the Palestinian cause of independance, and it doesn't seem like they're to intent on gaining control of Gaza and doing it now. An editorial in an Israeli paper today called the Egyptians "in love" with the Israeli occupation.

Big Don: You're mostly right. Unfortunately, not negotiatiating with Hamas is not an option, ultimately. They're still holding Gilad Shalit, the Israeli soldier kidnapped in 2006, and they are the legally elected government in the Palestinian Authority. Israel WILL ultimately negotiate with Hamas, but it will be from a position of power, which is its current objective.
 

grydth

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As nice an idea as a diplomatic solution is, anyone who thinks Israel or anyone else can negotiate with terrorists is a damn fool.
Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005 and supposedly, that was going to stop the terrorism. More rockets have fallen on Israel since 2005 than before. Diplomacy only works when ALL sides involved are sane and honest. Terrorists, being neither sane nor honest are not people rational people should ever try to negotiate with. Those that want to kill you, just to see you die, are not people you can trust, ever.

Israel isn't listening, Don. ABC website has a story up now where sources say the purpose of the invasion is 'to force Hamas into a more amenable negotiating position'.

If Israel was ever on the ropes, I wonder if Hamas/Hezbollah/Iran/Syria would grant them a ceasefire..... or would it be a second Holocaust?
 

grydth

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I'd like to address a few things mentioned here:

grydth: Egypt is actually reluctant to take control of the Gaza Strip themselves, nor do they want Israel out of it. Egypt had control of the Gaza strip until 1967, they never bothered to advance the Palestinian cause of independance, and it doesn't seem like they're to intent on gaining control of Gaza and doing it now. An editorial in an Israeli paper today called the Egyptians "in love" with the Israeli occupation.

< Begin my reply to Loki> My opinion - and that's all it is - would be that Egypt's fondest hope for Gaza would be a stable and moderate Palestinian state exist there. Such a place would provide them labor and trade opportunities.... as well as a stable border.

Egypt would not wish a radical state beholden to Iran, lest the nuttiness spread into their country and they again have the situation of the early 1980's. I doubt tears would be shed in Cairo if Hamas was eliminated.

I also doubt Egypt would favor long term Israeli occupation of Gaza. Resentment at that, in part, stokes the unrest that feeds lunatic groups like Hezbollah. If the Palestinians had their own state, a state which was a functioning and responsible good neighbor, Egypt would be all the better for it.
 
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Twin Fist

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i guess Hammas needs to learn not to pick fights with guys bigger than you

and the Palistinians need to MAKE Hammas cut thier crap
 
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MA-Caver

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i guess Hammas needs to learn not to pick fights with guys bigger than you

and the Palistinians need to MAKE Hammas cut thier crap
From the photos looks like both sides got their asses kicked.
 

Twin Fist

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palistinans target civilians
israelis target bad guys hiding among civilians

hmmm, who to feel sorry for?

the cat
 
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MA-Caver

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More photos from the Gaza conflict. (again graphic warning) ... some truly amazing photos here to give appreciation as to what's going on over there.
http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/01/scenes_from_the_gaza_strip.html
Two selected photos, one of the firepower they have going on over there and the second... though it's not what it looks like... it's ominous as to what it COULD be sometime in the future.
 

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It's going to get worse before it gets better.
Israel tells Gazans to brace for war escalation


By IBRAHIM BARZAK and CHRISTOPHER TORCHIA, Associated Press Writers Ibrahim Barzak And Christopher Torchia, Associated Press Writers 1 hr 29 mins ago
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090110/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_palestiniansGAZA CITY, Gaza Strip Israel dropped bombs and leaflets on Gaza Saturday, pounding suspected rocket sites and tunnels used by Hamas militants and warning of a wider offensive despite frantic diplomacy to end the bloodshed.
Egypt hosted talks aimed at defusing the crisis, but war had the momentum on a bloody day on which more than 30 Palestinians, many of them noncombatants, were killed.
At hospitals, distraught relatives men in jeans and jackets and women in black Islamic robes sobbed and shrieked at the loss of family. Flames and smoke rose over Gaza City amid heavy fighting.
Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas predicted a "waterfall of blood" unless all parties adhere to a U.N. call for a cease-fire. But Israel has said the Security Council resolution passed Thursday was unworkable, and Hamas, the Islamic group whose government controls Gaza but is not recognized internationally, was angry that it was not consulted.
A top Hamas leader said the Gaza war has killed the last chance for settlement and negotiations with Israel.
 

grydth

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"A top Hamas leader" says that the "last" chance for settlement and negotiation with Israel is now passed...... one would like to ask this Lion of Islam just when the first chance was.

But we cannot.... you see this courageous soldier, one each Khalid Mashaal, made the statement from the safety of his rathole in Damascus, Syria. Of course, enjoying a life of comfort in Bashir Assad's shadow, this fellow is willing to 'fight' to the last person in Gaza.

Saladin is reborn.... may the Mossad visit him soon.
 

grydth

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So, Israel is dropping leaflets to warn Gaza civilians to leave areas about to be attacked.....

When, gentle readers, have we ever seen the Islamic terrorists of Hamas/Hezbollah/Islamic Jihad/al Qaeda do such a thing? Well of course they don't! Since they focus their attacks on civilians, warning them would just spoil everything. Of course, they get a pass on the cannibalism.
 
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