Is it a consensus in the martial arts world that... BJJ is the best?

skribs

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Title.

I find Judo and boxing to be much more fashionable for me but... I mean, if it's common knowledge that Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is the best, then I may as well sign up for it in the one close to my home. The dojo is literally walking distance for me.

If the consensus is shaky, however... Then I want to stick to Judo. Judo looks awesome.

Honestly my goal is really to be skilled enough to easily neutralize or hurt a same-sized person who's hostile against me, without weapons. I have no ambitions of being competitive. If Judo is more than enough for that, then Judo it is. But if Brazilian Jiu Jitsu will do it far better, then I may have to reconsider.
BJJ is a good art. There are a lot of good arts. There's a saying in BJJ, "Leave your ego at the door." What I think has happened is that the ego that got left at the door by every student has accumulated into this monstrosity that bullies martial arts forums into submission. Within BJJ, there isn't an ego. But when someone who does BJJ talks to someone who doesn't, there's typically a very snobbish attitude, like BJJ is an A-grade martial art, and everything else is a D or an F. The best people at looking down on the other arts are the Gracies, so one could argue it's part of the art.

I don't have experience in Judo. I've done about 13 years of Taekwondo, 8 years of Hapkido, 3 years of wrestling, and a few months ago I started BJJ. It is definitely a good martial art, and you'll learn a lot. But that doesn't mean you won't learn a lot in Judo and/or boxing. Or really any other art. What you learn and how you learn it will be different. If that's better for you and for your needs is up to you to decide. It's probably going to be more about the specific gym culture than the art overall. Like I said above, I find most BJJ folks online to be absolutely dismal to talk to, but I love the people I train with at my gym.

My advice for you depends on your situation. I'm going to generally focus on "Judo vs BJJ" and assume you might do boxing with it either way.
  • If you are a beginner in Judo and currently love your class, don't do BJJ right now. Keep doing Judo. Later on, when you're more experienced, if there are specific things you want to learn that BJJ has and Judo doesn't, or if you want to deep-dive into the ground game in ways that your Judo class isn't, then adding on BJJ or switching to BJJ would be a good idea.
  • If you haven't started yet, try both Judo and BJJ and see which class you felt strongest about. This will be a combination of the teaching, the material, and how well you fit in with the students.
  • If you like Judo in theory but don't fit in at your Judo school, then give BJJ a try. Most schools will let you do a free or cheap trial class to see how you like it. Or try other Judo schools in your area (if available). If you try a BJJ school and don't like it, then you can try another and see if that culture fits you better. Or just stick to boxing. Or try something else out.
 

Denoaikido

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It's decently the best art if your on your back or for submissions period it's one the best as it has evolved so much taking judo wrestling and now alot of sambo leg lock crossovers but definitely one of the worst for stand up striking
 

Hanzou

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Absolutely, 100%, no question about it. Just ask the Gracies 不. On a serious note, no it's not. I have experience in both BJJ and Judo, personally I believe Judo(non-Olympic) to be a more complete grappling system.

How can that be the case when leg locks, shoulder locks, and multiple takedowns aren't taught?
 

Hanzou

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he wrote non olympic . it was actually tought before Olympic Judo
Youll be hard pressed to find a Judo dojo anywhere in the world teaching techniques banned in randori practice. Especially something like leg locks and leg lock entries.
 

Hanzou

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but how do you really know?

Uh, because leg locks and their entries have been banned from randori practice for almost 100 years in Judo. That means you're not allowed to even practice it on a mat in a Judo dojo.

And yeah, that ban predates Olympic Judo. There might be some rogue Judo group looking up some Bjj videos to try to add leg locks to their game, but you're not going to learn them in a Judo dojo.
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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Youll be hard pressed to find a Judo dojo anywhere in the world teaching techniques banned in randori practice. Especially something like leg locks and leg lock entries.
I think that's what would differentiate it as non-olympic. The only judo school I trained at was non-olympic and taught those things.
 

Anarax

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How can that be the case when leg locks, shoulder locks, and multiple takedowns aren't taught?
I've been fortunate enough to have more old-school Judo instructors that teach banned techniques, hence why I said "non-Olympic Judo".
 

Hanzou

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I've been fortunate enough to have more old-school Judo instructors that teach banned techniques, hence why I said "non-Olympic Judo".
Of course you have.... :rolleyes:

Listen, saying that Judo is a more complete system because you supposedly had some Judo guru in his garage teach you "teh secret sauce" doesn't make Judo a more complete grappling system. The simple reality is that if the average person goes to the average Judo dojo, they won't be getting a complete grappling system compared to what they'd get at the average BJJ school.

Those are simply the facts.
 

Hanzou

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for you maybe but there are schools of judo who teach a lot of old school judo. also why are you getting upset?

I'm sure there's Judo schools that teach boxing and classical Japanese swordsmanship.

That doesn't change the argument at all.
 

Hanzou

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only you are calling this an argument.
Uh, that's objectively what is is; The nonsensical belief that Judo is taught as a complete grappling system when it clearly isn't by the vast majority of practitioners utilizing said system.

With that, I have no interest in a back and forth with an obvious troll, so feel free to have the last word.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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The simple reality is that if the average person goes to the average Judo dojo, they won't be getting a complete grappling system compared to what they'd get at the average BJJ school.

Those are simply the facts.
Do you agree that:

- Judo is a 80% throwing art and 20% ground game. Judo may only cover part of the ground game.
- BJJ is 20% throwing and 80% ground game. BJJ may only cover part of the throwing art.

Do average BJJ schools teach this "leg lift" throw?

 
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Monkey Turned Wolf

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Do you have a link to this dojo's website?
Here's their judo page (you can navigate around from there)
Judo South Mountain Martial Arts

It's been about 8 years since I trained there, so looks like they've changed to calling it judo and jujitsu, possibly because they incorporate those. A lot could have changed, but back when I trained there, it was specifically 'judo' and they included leg locks/entries.

They've also got sambo there, but the two are distinctly separate. It was run by 2 brothers, one who focused in judo, the other who focused in sambo/kenpo, and they don't (or at least didn't) interfere with the others' classes. I'm only seeing one of the brothers listed on there now, so something might have happened to the other and Dayn took over most of the classes.
 

Hanzou

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Do you agree that:

- Judo is a 80% throwing art and 20% ground game. Judo may only cover part of the ground game.
- BJJ is 20% throwing and 80% ground game. BJJ may only cover part of the throwing art.

Do average BJJ schools teach this "leg lift" throw?


No and no. I would actually argue that Judo is about 5% ground and 95% standup at this point. Bjj expanded newaza far beyond what you see in judo. As for that throw, not really. Bjj exponents tend to highly favor wrestling-style takedowns over Judo throws, especially in no-gi. Not doing Judo throws doesnt mean that youre not doing stand-up.
 

Hanzou

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Here's their judo page (you can navigate around from there)
Judo South Mountain Martial Arts

It's been about 8 years since I trained there, so looks like they've changed to calling it judo and jujitsu, possibly because they incorporate those. A lot could have changed, but back when I trained there, it was specifically 'judo' and they included leg locks/entries.

They've also got sambo there, but the two are distinctly separate. It was run by 2 brothers, one who focused in judo, the other who focused in sambo/kenpo, and they don't (or at least didn't) interfere with the others' classes. I'm only seeing one of the brothers listed on there now, so something might have happened to the other and Dayn took over most of the classes.

Yeah, I noticed theyre calling their system South Mountain Jujitsu instead of just Judo. As you said, this was more likely done because they were incorporating stuff that simply isnt allowed in modern Judo so they couldnt call themselves a Judo dojo.

This simply isnt the case in Bjj.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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Bjj exponents tend to highly favor wrestling-style takedowns over Judo throws, especially in no-gi. Not doing Judo throws doesnt mean that youre not doing stand-up.
Agree with you on this. It seems to me that not all Judo guys want to train no-gi. That put a limitation on the future of the Judo development.
 
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Hanzou

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Agree with you on this. It seems to me that not all Judo guys want to train no-gi. That put a limit on the future of the Judo development.

Well not only that, but wrestling takedowns are simply easier to learn than Judo throws, which are highly technical and have a higher overall skill floor. A high school kid doing scholastic wrestling for four years will simply be a better grappler than a high school kid taking Judo in the same time frame.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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wrestling takedowns are simply easier to learn than Judo throws,
I believe wrestling has less throws to train than Judo has. I don't know how many throws that Judo has, but Chinese wrestling (Shuai Chiao) that's similiar to Judo has over 230 throws. IMO, nobody can master all those throws in his life time.
 

Hanzou

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I believe wrestling has less throws to train than Judo has. I don't know how many throws that Judo has, but Chinese wrestling (Shuai Chiao) that's similiar to Judo has over 230 throws. IMO, nobody can master all those throws in his life time.

Simply put, a single leg or body lock is easier to perform than a Harai Goahi or an Uchi Mata.
 

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