Interesting - WingChunPedia

[Xue Sheng]

Wing Chun Pedia

 

[Eric_H]

It doesn't even list that Siu Nim Tao and Siu Lein Tao are different things - it very incorrectly thinks its a romanization issue.

If it can't even get the name of the first form right, the rest is likely bollocks as well.

 

[Xue Sheng]

It doesn't even list that Siu Nim Tao and Siu Lein Tao are different things - it very incorrectly thinks its a romanization issue.

Same thing here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siu_Nim_Tao
But since I am clueless as to what Siu Lein Tao is would you mind telling me

If it can't even get the name of the first form right, the rest is likely bollocks as well.

Well...no.

It sounds as if they may have made a mistake there. Now if you read more and see there are many more mistakes... then yes


So what is Siu Lein Tao?

 

[mook jong man]

Is this like the other wikipedia thing where any Tom , Dick and Harry can get on there and write something?

Look you don't have to go to questionable web sites seeking Wing Chun knowledge , you can consult with either me , Geezer , Yak Sao , Eric H , Zepedawingchun , Vajramusti , wtxs , cwk , hunt1 , bully , domino , jake104 , professormental , naneek , izeqb et al.

My apologies to any esteemed members of the Wing Chun / Wing Tsun think tank who's names I have missed.

As a collective font of reliable and accurate Wing Chun knowledge any of the above people can help you with any queries you may have-

because we are just so friggin awesome.


PS. If we don't know the answer , we should be able to make something up which sounds just as plausible , nobody will know the difference , really they won't.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Is this like the other wikipedia thing where any Tom , Dick and Harry can get on there and write something?

Look you don't have to go to questionable web sites seeking Wing Chun knowledge , you can consult with either me , Geezer , Yak Sao , Eric H , Zepedawingchun , Vajramusti , wtxs , cwk , hunt1 , bully , domino , jake104 , professormental , naneek , izeqb et al.

My apologies to any esteemed members of the Wing Chun / Wing Tsun think tank who's names I have missed.

As a collective font of reliable and accurate Wing Chun knowledge any of the above people can help you with any queries you may have-

because we are just so friggin awesome.


PS. If we don't know the answer , we should be able to make something up which sounds just as plausible , nobody will know the difference , really they won't.

Actually I was not going there seeking Wing Chun knowledge… I am fully aware of the Awesomeness….and attractiveness

of those you listed on the site…in other CMA sections of MT I too am one of the awesome and attractive….and, by the way, there is no charge of awesomeness and attractiveness, but I digress….. if I had an actual question I would have asked one of those you listed or my sifu….who is also awesome….and attractive. I just thought it was an interesting page…not the Wing Chun Bible.... just interesting

Which leads me back to an actual question for those of you who are awesome…and attractive (those who are not awesome and attractive need not answer )….what the heck does Siu Lein Tao mean since it is apparently not the same as xiǎo niàn tóu (of course written in the proper MANDARIN :EG OK… I am willing to admit it is actually it is properly written like this 小念頭


Siu Nim Tao (小念頭; xiǎo niàn tóu; Yale Cantonese: síu nihm tàuh; "little idea" or "little imagination") or Siu Lim Tao (小練頭; xiǎo liàn tóu; Yale Cantonese: síu lihn tàuh; "little practice").

This 小念頭 by the way, if you go to Babel fish (where I generally go is I want a quick and somewhat humorous translation) translates as Small thought…which would be little idea… but I do not have the characters for Siu Lein Tao so I cannot translate them...so what does Siu Lein Tao mean...if it actually means anything at all

 

[Eric_H]

I've seen Siu Lein Tao referenced in a couple places - Cho Ga WCK, Hung Fa Yi WCK, and some non-WCK arts too.

Basically it means Little Drilling in the beginning, for HFY folks it's the companion to Siu Nim Tao. Probably the easiest way to explain it is that Siu Nim Tao is drilling the hardware, the angles, the idea of the concept. Siu Lein Tao is drilling the software, usually with a partner, working on the application of the concept and the strategy. In our Oral history, most of the practitioners under the WC Sifu would only be taught Siu Lein Tao and not Siu Nim Tao style training.

One example of it that we have in HFY is Saap Ming Dim Siu Lein Tao (10 bright point Little beginning drilling) which is a drilling set to get someone expressing their reference points in motion - it's a set of training that falls between learning SNT and Chum Kiu.


Edit:
My first teacher wrote an article on it a very long time ago, if anyone cares to read:
http://redflowerboxing.com/?p=51

 

[hunt1]

Wingchunpedia is an excellent site. Brian Scanlan made a huge effort to collect information from a number of different sources and he tried very hard to cross reference that information. Is it 100% correct?Probably not but it is the single best effort made at an unbiased attempt to gather information from the multitude of wing chun families that exist. Will every one agree with it? No of course not. You can't get all of Yip mans students to agree on anything so to expect every wing chun family to agree on everything is crazy.

As for Sui lim Tau or Sui Nim Tau every family but 1 it seems will know you are referring to the first form of wing chun. Knowing or caring about every groups own idiosyncrasies is outside the scope of any general overview on wing chun development and family comparison.

 

[Eric_H]

As for Sui lim Tau or Sui Nim Tau every family but 1 it seems will know you are referring to the first form of wing chun. Knowing or caring about every groups own idiosyncrasies is outside the scope of any general overview on wing chun development and family comparison.

@hunt1,

So the fact that they're different characters and have different meaning doesn't matter to you? This is more of a Chinese cultural issue than a Kung Fu one, granted, but it's worth being as correct as you can when describing such things.

As with all things, it's better to make sure your sources are reliable. I'm not knocking the guy for putting it together, its obviously a good point of discussion - but same as wikipedia - not all the info on it is trustworthy or complete.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I've seen Siu Lein Tao referenced in a couple places - Cho Ga WCK, Hung Fa Yi WCK, and some non-WCK arts too.

Basically it means Little Drilling in the beginning, for HFY folks it's the companion to Siu Nim Tao. Probably the easiest way to explain it is that Siu Nim Tao is drilling the hardware, the angles, the idea of the concept. Siu Lein Tao is drilling the software, usually with a partner, working on the application of the concept and the strategy. In our Oral history, most of the practitioners under the WC Sifu would only be taught Siu Lein Tao and not Siu Nim Tao style training.

One example of it that we have in HFY is Saap Ming Dim Siu Lein Tao (10 bright point Little beginning drilling) which is a drilling set to get someone expressing their reference points in motion - it's a set of training that falls between learning SNT and Chum Kiu.

Thanks

Edit:
My first teacher wrote an article on it a very long time ago, if anyone cares to read:
http://redflowerboxing.com/?p=51

Thanks I read it...

and I can only assume since you used his article in the explanationthat he too is...or was.... one that was also known to have Awesomeness….and attractiveness

 

[hunt1]

@hunt1,

So the fact that they're different characters and have different meaning doesn't matter to you?


No not really. Most of these differences tend to be marketing and superficial. For several reasons folks use different terms for the same thing. As a practical matter we all have 2 arms 2 legs. We all have the same limitations and possible actions. We all deal with the same combat ranges and problems. Therefore no matter how things are named or divided or approached in the end we all have the same exact set of options and answers.

As an example Leung Ting's organization has Lat Sau. As an organized way of teaching a specific set of skills to a wide ranging group of students it is very good. However the skills taught in lat sau are taught in other wing chun families. So the difference is one of organization and marketing not one of substantive difference.

Other groups may have differences based on time spent on something but this doesn't mean the skills are any different. For example some groups may spend far more time than others training how to bridge the gap from no contact. All groups of these methods just some may train them better. This training difference may be marketed but it doesn't mean unique skills not taught be other wing chun families exist.

The true differences that exist are based on how the usage of the body is developed and trained. The difference in body structure is the only true substantive difference between wing chun families from my experience.

 

[Vajramusti]

@hunt1,

The true differences that exist are based on how the usage of the body is developed and trained. The difference in body structure is the only true substantive difference between wing chun families from my experience.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Good point Hunt 1.
Much truth to that. The problem is that differences in structure are not always obvious to inexperienced eyes.
Differences in the details of structures often results in considerable differences in other aspects of motion.

joy chaudhuri

 

[hunt1]

Thanks Joy and you are right. If people looked at the 2 extremes of Yip Man students Leung Ting and William Cheung they would see that the 2 systems are so different because they are built upon very different body structures.

 

[Eric_H]

Thanks Joy and you are right. If people looked at the 2 extremes of Yip Man students Leung Ting and William Cheung they would see that the 2 systems are so different because they are built upon very different body structures.

@hunt1,

I think i see where you are coming from now. For me, my Sifu makes the culture/history/language a big part of our learning, but does it really make that much technical difference if we call the same thing something different? No it doesn't. I look at these things more as a calling to a point of origin and how we can see where some of the differences started to occur. Sad thing is, you are right, too many people take something authentic then bastardize-marketing the hell out of it, making it meaningless.

 

[KamonGuy2]

To be frank, many descriptions vary in wing chun. A lot of the time this is because of either pronounciation misconcepts, or simply that what might be a 'punch' to one person, may be a 'whipping punch' to another. It depends on how much detail you want to go into. One master I trained with used to break siu nim tao down into around 400 different techniques. That was far too detailed to me. I prefer simpliciy and common sense. Technique is important, but if you name every single twitch of the hand as a move, you wont really get out of the starting blocks of the art

 

[Domino]

PS. If we don't know the answer, we should be able to make something up which sounds just as plausible, nobody will know the difference, really they won't.

Thanks for the mention, seriously nearly spat my drink out !

 

[naneek]

lol thanks for the inclusion in your list mook but i am not all that awesome and only semi attractive!

 

[Xue Sheng]

lol thanks for the inclusion in your list mook but i am not all that awesome and only semi attractive!

:jaw-dropping: not Awsome and only semi-attractive :disgust:

:hmm:...well then...I am very sorry about this but...you must be shunned