Intercessory Prayer

[Gyakuto]

There are calls for sincere prayers for a certain famous spiritual leader who is currently very ill. For his sake, I would strongly suggest you do not comply. This explains the reasons-

Study of the Therapeutic Effects of Intercessory Prayer (STEP) in cardiac bypass patients: a multicenter randomized trial of uncertainty and certainty of receiving intercessory prayer - PubMed

Intercessory prayer itself had no effect on complication-free recovery from CABG, but certainty of receiving intercessory prayer was associated with a higher incidence of complications.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Anyone seen the excellent ‘Conclave’?

 

[Prince_Alarming]

You know, there's a whole cause and effect problem here that you're just not seeing

 

[Gyakuto]

You know, there's a whole cause and effect problem here that you're just not seeing

…elaborate…

 

[Prince_Alarming]

Well, maybe people are being prayed for because they are more gravely ill and more likely to suffer complications, rather than the other way around?

 

[Prince_Alarming]

Also, your argument kind of pulls the rug from under your own feet. You, I presume, would contend that supernatural assistance is not involved, and the only way cause and effect can be the other way around is if it is.

 

[Gyakuto]

Well, maybe people are being prayed for because they are more gravely ill and more likely to suffer complications, rather than the other way around?

You haven’t read the whole paper…

 

[Prince_Alarming]

No, I haven't. Empirical rationalism is of limited use when trying to understand the mysteries of religion, and I have better things to do with my time.

 

[Gyakuto]

No, I haven't.

You’ve commented on something you haven’t bothered reading?

Empirical rationalism is of limited use when trying to understand the mysteries of religion, and I have better things to do with my time.

“…you can’t understand because you don’t believe.” “… my ki/chi magic doesn’t work in the lab in front of skeptics.”It’s a get out clause used all too often when there is a weak counter argument.

 

[Prince_Alarming]

You’ve commented on something you haven’t bothered reading?

That's right. It's possible to form a judgement simply on what you say about it in your post, and I cannot be arsed with what promises to be some very dull reading.

“…you can’t understand because you don’t believe.” “… my ki/chi magic doesn’t work in the lab in front of skeptics.”It’s a get out clause used all too often when there is a weak counter argument.

To be honest, I'm not sure it's even worth replying. One cannot argue about deeply held beliefs like your absolute faith in your own intellect. At a certain point there are no further arguments to be made, and you haven't addressed the one about your position undermining itself.

 

[Prince_Alarming]

Oh, and the reverse is the case. It's not that you don't understand because you don't believe, you don't believe because you don't understand.

 

[Gyakuto]

To be honest, I'm not sure it's even worth replying. One cannot argue about deeply held beliefs like your absolute faith in your own faith. At a certain point there are no further arguments to be made, and you haven't addressed the one about your position undermining itself.

 

[Prince_Alarming]

Oh well. Jesus still loves you- even if you are a c0ck

 

[HighKick]

You’ve commented on something you haven’t bothered reading?

“…you can’t understand because you don’t believe.” “… my ki/chi magic doesn’t work in the lab in front of skeptics.”It’s a get out clause used all too often when there is a weak counter argument.

It has got to be a strange world you live in where Everything can be proven, and the empirical evidence is easily seen. It must be some kind of static bubble.

I am an admittedly compulsive automation/control engineer. Every 'what-if' problem in a potential process must be sleuthed out. Despite best efforts, sometimes things happen that I did not anticipate. The same in life.

I also own a large cattle operation and (2) martial arts schools. And, I was a pretty darn good Olympic TKD competitor, not to mention being an avid outdoorsman.

I have seen too many things I cannot explain and have had too many 'should have been dead' encounters not to believe in a higher power. Nothing else makes sense.

Grace is an action verb. I see it almost every day.

 

[Prince_Alarming]

It has got to be a strange world you live in where Everything can be proven, and the empirical evidence is easily seen. It must be some kind of static bubble.

I am an admittedly compulsive automation/control engineer. Every 'what-if' problem in a potential process must be sleuthed out. Despite best efforts, sometimes things happen that I did not anticipate. The same in life.

I also own a large cattle operation and (2) martial arts schools. And, I was a pretty darn good Olympic TKD competitor, not to mention being an avid outdoorsman.

I have seen too many things I cannot explain and have had too many 'should have been dead' encounters not to believe in a higher power. Nothing else makes sense.

Grace is an action verb. I see it almost every day.

Personally, if it's known how vast the universe really is and there is such a huge variety of animals and plants, and the world- though an infinitesimal dot on an infinitesimal dot- is so rich and beautiful, I think "How can you know all that and not believe in God"?

 

[Badhabits]

I'm still waiting for us to find life elsewhere in the universe.....by all rights there should be life elsewhere. If there's not I pretty much see that as proof of a higher power. How can there not be life elsewhere except by design?

 

[Prince_Alarming]

I'm fairly certain that there is life somewhere else. The problem is that the odds against it are pretty long, so in all probability it's so far away that we will never discover it. One usually invokes the anthropic principle at some point which is essentially that if there weren't sentient life in the universe then there would be nobody to ask the question. I'm not sure that actually explains the problem, it seems too much like a free lunch. It just makes the explanation contingent on agency.

 

[Buka]

There are calls for sincere prayers for a certain famous spiritual leader who is currently very ill. For his sake, I would strongly suggest you do not comply. This explains the reasons-

Study of the Therapeutic Effects of Intercessory Prayer (STEP) in cardiac bypass patients: a multicenter randomized trial of uncertainty and certainty of receiving intercessory prayer - PubMed

Intercessory prayer itself had no effect on complication-free recovery from CABG, but certainty of receiving intercessory prayer was associated with a higher incidence of complications.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Anyone seen the excellent ‘Conclave’?

That certain spiritual leader once said of people like me who have pets instead of children - that we are selfish, diminished and it has taken away our humanity.

To which I say, “Don’t let the door hit you in the ash on your way to the hot downstairs, dude.”

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Thread locked pending review. As a reminder, while we can discuss religion when it plays into martial arts (ie: how spirtiuality may impact your mindset when training), we request that you refrain from posts debating or bashing any religions directly.