Inside and Outside Gate

[7starmantis]

First allow me to define "inside gate" and "outside gate".

Inside Gate: This would refer to being on the inside of your opponants arms or legs. If he were holding his arms straight out in front of him you would be between the two arms.

Outside Gate: This would refer to being on the outside on the opponants arms or legs. If his arms were out straight you would be on the outside, on the elbow side of the arms.

The question is what do you guys prefer or what is your natural inclination when fighting, staying on the inside or outside gate? Now grant it the idea is to be proficient and comfortable with both, but what is your ideal?

I really like going inside gate because it normally opens up a great attack, but I feel way more comfortable in general staying outside gate most of the fight. Outside really seems to present more locking and breaking opportunities as well, so I tend to stay outside. That being said I'm training more on inside now so that I'm proficient with both.

7sm

 

[Blooming Lotus]

depends what sort of defence situation I'm using it in.

outside gate for more elemental / mid limb blocking - counter and inside gate for direct set up / distraction striking........... with pressure striking / elbows and blade / half fist / press strikes in mind, usually prefer inside.........( though Kostya Tsyus recent outside performance and respective 3 round KO is giving me something to think about!!!! )

btw : in internal arts , particularly taiji, isn't the term "opening your 4 gates " in regard to arm / shoulder joints and hip / thigh release ???


??????

 

[RHD]

Outside: Safer, good place to focus on for beginners and larger/stronger opponents.

Inside: Much more dangerous, but more vital targets available. I find as the more experience and comfortable under stress I become, the more I favor the inside. Not a good place however, to go toe to toe with a stronger opponent.

Mike

 

[Blooming Lotus]

good points. Krava Maga recently worked that outside beautifully against a much larger player and came out on top. Nice take on that.

 

[7starmantis]

Inside tends to be less expected in my opinion as well. Most people I fight are not expecting an inside attack. Not to mention they are pretty hard to defend against as well.

7sm

 

[Eldritch Knight]

I tend to attack inside gate, usually because I have the speed to be able to get in before they can counter, and because my TKD background has pretty much drilled it into me. I've been working on outside gate, because I love the locks and holds I've been learning in internal MA, but I'm still having difficulty with circular movements and implementation in general.

 

[Blooming Lotus]

what about take downs??? Inside or outside??

 

[RHD]

what about take downs??? Inside or outside??

Good question.
I would say that my repetoire of takedowns and throw is split 50/50 between originating on the inside or the outside. More importantly in those techniques is the ability to control from one, but break the balance from the other. Perhaps it would be better to classify them as both inside and outside. For example, a typical chopping type leg throw might originate from the inside "clinch", but the chopping leg circles around and comes through back from the outside.

Mike

 

[Blooming Lotus]

the only reason I ask is because as a predominantly inside guard fighter, a fave close range takedown of mine is ( and I still can't remember what its called) slip leg between their thighs from the front , hook ankle to their outside thigh or back of knee and use knee to opposite leg for stabilising the reap, and my instructor seemed to really effectively use the opposite outside version so much better, that I was tempted to switch my first port of call take down. He is an outside guard fighter himnself and by opposite I mean using opposite leg to lead, either step hooking ankle across the back of their lead , hooking it through or just working different arms to compensate balance, but don't you think the outside guard version takes more time to execute ???..unless you're already on that outer side guard that is???
But he does it from the front ???? and fast!!! ???? ( wt???)
Are their any other outside guard fighters here who prefer inside take downs and vice versa??? Sincerely curious.



Cheers



Blooming Lotus

 

[DavidCC]

I prefer the outside, but "leaning on the fence". That is, in very close contact. Plenty of critical targets out here... and lots of good take downs too. I find it a lot easier to get into close range on the outside.


From what I've read the "4 gates" referred to in chinese tradition are the meridian end-points in the palms of the hands and the soles of the feet. The 5th gate being the 3rd eye.
-David

 

[James Kovacich]

Upper inside gates for me. Thats my core fighting range and where I'm best. Offense is defense, defense is offense!

 

[RHD]

From what I've read the "4 gates" referred to in chinese tradition are the meridian end-points in the palms of the hands and the soles of the feet. The 5th gate being the 3rd eye.
-David

Depends on who's theory you're reading... :uhyeah:

Mike

 

[James Kovacich]

From what I've read the "4 gates" referred to in chinese tradition are the meridian end-points in the palms of the hands and the soles of the feet. The 5th gate being the 3rd eye.
-David

If you were to divide your body into 2 halves straight down the middle and then divide it again between your (across your body) abdomen and chest closer to the abdomen you will have your basic Wing Chun 4 gates. Upper outer, inner outer depending on your stance and lower inner and outers.

I've never heard of "another 4 gates."

 

[Blooming Lotus]

Taiji and qigong and many other cmas have them too. It is in relation to meridians ( but not in the feet according to my information) and the way you describe it in WC sounds spot on. In fact "opening your gates" is just part of standard warm up.

 

[Blooming Lotus]

First allow me to define "inside gate" and "outside gate".

Inside Gate: This would refer to being on the inside of your opponants arms or legs. If he were holding his arms straight out in front of him you would be between the two arms.

Outside Gate: This would refer to being on the outside on the opponants arms or legs. If his arms were out straight you would be on the outside, on the elbow side of the arms.

The question is what do you guys prefer or what is your natural inclination when fighting, staying on the inside or outside gate? Now grant it the idea is to be proficient and comfortable with both, but what is your ideal?

I really like going inside gate because it normally opens up a great attack, but I feel way more comfortable in general staying outside gate most of the fight. Outside really seems to present more locking and breaking opportunities as well, so I tend to stay outside. That being said I'm training more on inside now so that I'm proficient with both.

7sm

How tall are you ( or is anyone else here for that matter)??? I was reading an interview with Chuck Norris today and being sahort himself, he said he had huge challenges as an insider fighter against the longer legged opponents ( particularly the Korean stylists and all those long range and high kicks they seem to be so fond of), so he overcame that by working his leg trapping before closing ( as you do ) .

I'm about 167 cm and it just occurred to me, that this coupled with the style that body types predisposes you to lean toward, likely has a lot to do with where you fight your game.

Any everyone elses height and frame type + preferred gate ???

Cheers

Blooming Lotus

 

[7starmantis]

How tall are you ( or is anyone else here for that matter)??? I was reading an interview with Chuck Norris today and being sahort himself, he said he had huge challenges as an insider fighter against the longer legged opponents ( particularly the Korean stylists and all those long range and high kicks they seem to be so fond of), so he overcame that by working his leg trapping before closing ( as you do ) .

I'm actually 6' 2" (187 cm ?). But I think Chuck closing the gap would be different techniques from me closing the gap since we practice very different systems. See, we dont use as much legs as he does. As far as the leg trapping, what are you saying? You said "as you do ". What exactly do you mean? I see the sarcastic smilie there, but what are you refering to?

I dont think the height has a large factor in which "gate" your predisposed to since its a learned behavior anyway. Maybe it does a little, but I think its more than just a height issue.

JMHO,
7sm

 

[Blooming Lotus]

6'2" ha??? ......... Is it just me that's short or is that extremely tall??? :idunno:


What I meant was that we've discussed closing the gap before and I think leg trapping, particularly against longer legged opponents, is an obvious choice.

Perhaps height is only a small factor compared to style, but surely body type and height influences the style you choose to maxamize your abilty right??? Of course there's a cross over and you get little folks in more power strike styles and and longer people in your wingchuns and aerial type styles but are you sure your body type had nothing to do with the style you thought could maximise your muscles fibre / cardio skills yourself??

Hmmm..maybe that's a new thread. "how did you choose your style and why???"

cheers 7

Blooming Lotus

 

[7starmantis]

6'2" ha??? ......... Is it just me that's short or is that extremely tall??? :idunno:

Haha, I dot feel extremely tall, but if I were a woman, 6' 2" would be pretty tall I would think.

Perhaps height is only a small factor compared to style, but surely body type and height influences the style you choose to maxamize your abilty right??? Of course there's a cross over and you get little folks in more power strike styles and and longer people in your wingchuns and aerial type styles but are you sure your body type had nothing to do with the style you thought could maximise your muscles fibre / cardio skills yourself??

I guess for some it does. I dont like to put conditions and boxes around what I can do, so I tend not to think that way. When I started my style I was too young to know how tall I would end up, so that wasn't really a factor. I do know people who look at their body type and choose a style from there, but I dont really agree with that. My muscle fibre and cardio skills are what I am training to change, so I wouldn't want to choose a style based on what they are at the time of choosing. People always talk about what body style fits with this style of such, but I disagree with all that.

Hmmm..maybe that's a new thread. "how did you choose your style and why???"

There have been some done before in different areas, feel free to start a thread on it here though.

7sm