[Up front I will say I do not have firsthand knowledge with any other distance learning program other than the IKCA and can only speak to how they handle the distance learning process. Once again I emphatically state that there are certain (if not most) distance learning programs available that should be avoided like the plague, that do not have procedures and parameters in place to do what is necessary to insure quality instruction. "Buyer Beware!" is certainly the catch phrase in these situations.]
Mr. Crouch,
I admire someone who is firm in their convictions. It was my original intention to let your comments go by the wayside, to live with the fact we are diametrically opposed in our opinions, and to understand that I'm not going to change your mind and you aren't going to change mine. But the more I thought about it I realized that to let some of your objections go unanswered and concerns go unaddressed would be to foster a distinct misunderstanding of the IKCA specifically. This would do a disservice to those who may be struggling with the issue of distance learning. After all, we certainly wouldn't want them making up their mind based on misconceptions, would we? This should hold true for your position or mine. You obviously do not speak from direct experience with the IKCA and as many of the uninformed do, have made assumptions that are incorrect.
We actually have very similar backgrounds. I started in the arts in the summer of '72, and yes it was Kenpo. I took a different path shortly thereafter and spent the next 30+ years studying and teaching Hapkido, with varying degrees of exposure to other arts. That being said, I held exactly the same positions as you hold when I first learned of distance learning. Point for point we follow (or followed) the same talking paper when addressing this issue. I was as staunch as they come in the feeling that the only way one could learn martial arts effectively was face-to-face, toe-to-toe, in your face and on the mat. To be honest there are some facets of certain arts that I still feel the same way about today.
Let's address some of the issues you raise paragraph by paragraph:
I have already invested over 30 years of active training in kenpo ("active" not to include couch time), under the direct tutelage of men with excellent standards and technique. Even with that as a background, I spent 3-4 hours the other day under the direct instruction of Doc Chapel and one of his assistants, just getting straight on footwork, stances, and basics I've been donig since my 6th birthday...and I still have a lot more to do before I'm near the mark. Constant, ongoing correction and improvement towards a specific performance capability goal, from a guy whose technical understandings aren't questioned by even his most vocal critics. Some may not like his politics or demeanor, or the direction he's taking Sub-Level Four, but I haven't yet heard anybody be dense enough to say, "Doc don't know kenpo". Got sore like a newbie; corrected like a newbie; humbled by how much more there is to learn even after committnig the equivalent of a life-sentence to the art, and you want me to believe -- even for a second -- that video instruction and testing is going to give you the detailed minutae required to do kenpo well?
Congratulations, sounds like you have had opportuniites others will never have. Just to be clear, let me say that I feel that face-to-face instruction is ALWAYS the best option. But what about those who have a passion for the art of Kenpo yet lack access to the impressive instructors you have had, or even qualified Kenpo instructors in their area? There are those that find themselves in this situation, both the inexperienced and the experienced. What do we say to them? Too bad, so sad, see ya? I'm not going to address, assume or insinuate anything concerning your choice of instructor, you're obviously happy with him, have a ball. Your statement concerning teacher-to-student correction and improvement towards a given performance capability has merit, but to assume that that's not present with the IKCA is incorrect. You appear to be unfamiliar with the IKCA process of structured teaching, testing, critique, expanded subject teaching and accountablity to demonstrate initial, corrected, and supplemental material. Granted, it is not as quick as face-to-face intruction would be, but when both parties are devoted to the process, be it via video lessons or supplemental in-person lessons, it is not only present but consistent as well. As for doing Kenpo well, as in face-to-face instructon, that occurs when the instuctor teaches well and the student learns well and ultimately that is demonstrated on the mat.
There is a lot of crappy kenpo out there; it's not hard, with a minimum of skill, to show up at a kenpo event, and fit in at the median or mean range of skill. If what you aspire to is mediocrity, then video courses are certainly the best option. If you demand integrity through excellence of yourself and your kenpo, then you have to yield to the simple fact that YOU CAN NOT LEARN THE MINUTE AND SPECIFIC DETAILS THAT MAKE KENPO A SOPHISTICATED SYSTEM VIA VIDEO.
You're right, there is a lot of crappy Kenpo out there, in this we are in complete agreement. But I've learned that it's best not to assume anything until I've met a person on the mat. The danger in making broad assertions and assumptions is that things don't always turn out as you expect. Sometimes your dead on the money, other times you find yourself eating crow. Your statement concerning "integrity through excellence" presupposes that all those involved in the distance learning process are willing to teach and/or accept something less than excellence, another broad assertion not supported by fact. I, nor anyone else, have to yield to the assertion, not fact, that quality Kenpo cannot be learned via video. This is an assumption based on your own experience, but sadly it cannot be substantiated by facts. The quality and end result of any teaching/learning experience depends on 1) the material, 2) the teacher, and 3) the student. The same as in the studio.
I have literally been in kenpo longer than a lot of the guys on this board have been alive. I have seen the studio-taught guys who suck, so yes, I know they are out there. Are they really to be considered the standard for comparison? Shall we choose the worst possibilities, and use them as comparators? Better idea. Let's choose the best, and use them. I'm spoiled, having had the geographic luxury to train with some of kenpo's greats and near greats here in Southern California (I read the phrase somewhere on MT about a year ago, meant in a derrogatory tone, "West Coast 1st Generatrion Senior/10-Degree black" like it's a bad thing).
Again, congratulations on your longevity. As far as the standard of comparison, I agree that we should do exactly as you suggest. The best compared to the best, absolutely. I think you misunderstood the point I was trying to make in the previous post. There are folks who have learned Kenpo strictly by video that I most certainly would put against their counterparts who have learned in a studio, good, better or best. The heart of the point I was trying to make, however poorly I articulated it, was that there is always going to be a spectrum of talent and ability regardless of learning method. And no, I would not assume that on the whole video students, at least with the IKCA, are substandard. I agree you're probably spoiled; being in the Mecca of Kenpo will do that to you. But my question would be why haven't you contacted Mr. Sullivan and Mr. LeRoux and asked to see the results of those they taught via video instead of making assumptions as to their program's effectiveness? After all, they are right in the neighborhood.
Parker left us, the kenpo public, a legacy to carry on. Mr. Sullivan was a part of that legacy for many years, and remains a very talented and skilled "West Coast 1st Gen 10th Degree Black". And yet, somehow, unless they have sold themsevles out for rank, you will not find a single warm-body information-transferred 1st or 2nd gen kenpo BB on here from NON-IKCA roots saying "video good". The few 1st gens and masters we have on here (albeit diplomatically) all agree it's a bad thing. At the very least, and insufficient way to pass on the detailed information that makes up Kenpo.
Nothing like a good back-handed compliment to try and make your point. Sure, you've got folks who disagree with what Mr. Sullivan and Mr. LeRoux have done with the IKCA. But there also those (1st and 2nd generation) who have seen good IKCA video folks in action and acknowledge (sometimes begrudgingly) the quality they observe. There are also those, some who may be closer than you think (on this forum), who say one thing when face-to-face with Mr. Sullivan and Mr. LeRoux, and then turn around and bad-mouth them to others. Seems like that integrity issue keeps raising it's ugly head. I personally would be hesitant to use this forum as a benchmark. Just because a few 1st generations who frequent here "agree it's a bad thing" don't make it so. To those I would be curious to see if they are speaking from firsthand experience or making assumptions, as it appears you are doing.
The Journey is a hard one. And should remain so to seperate wheat from chaff. Disenfranchised chaff have found a way to participate in kenpo via video, and the IKCA has found a way to get paid by providing that possibility. At least Sullivans gettting paid. Most of our kenpo greats will pass from this life without having reaped the finncial rewards they richly deserve.
Again, I couldn't agree more, but for slightly different reasons. I'm intrigued by your use of the term "disenfranchised chaff". Believe me, the IKCA has had their share of those individuals. (To me disenfranchised assumes they were affiliated elsewhere.) The IKCA has seen all kinds come knocking. Many are looking to get their illegitimate rank recognized and to be affiliated with Parker 1st generation Black Belts. They don't like it when they are told "We don't recognize the person who awarded you your rank as a legitimate Kenpo Black Belt." and " You must go through the system from square one, just like everybody else." Some are legitimate and still balk at the fact they have to learn the system. The failure rate for video tests in the IKCA is 2.5-3 out of every 5 tests. Many who fail are those with previous martial arts experience and many of those come from a "solid" background of Kenpo, with more than a few being Kenpo Black Belts from other organizations. It's actually funny to see them pop up elsewhere under another Kenpo organizaton with a new stripe or two within weeks or months of being turned away by the IKCA. Granted some do stick with the IKCA, at least for the first test, some drop off when they realize video testing is more involved than they thought or when they fail, others continue to work work their way through the curriculum. For those who have completed the process, most are very satisfied with the Kenpo they've learned and with the organization; a few aren't and on rare occasions some leave for various reasons. Sounds like the threshing process works quite well, thank you.
As to your intimation that Mr. Sullivan and Mr. LeRoux are in it for the money, selling the art they love out for the almighty dollar, all I can say is you don't know the men I know. Do they make any money? Sure they do, as do the 1st generation seniors who make their sole living giving seminars (some of which have never personally brought a student beyond Green Belt). Are they sitting atop the Kenpo video empire? Hardly. Compare their prices to everyone else, and remember that you only get charged a testing fee once (even if you fail and have to retest). A search of IKCA records show that only 3 out of 100 who ever make it to Orange Belt make it to Black Belt. If you would venture to take the time to know these men, as you appear to have made the effort to know others, you'll find two men who are passionate about the art of Kenpo and who love seeing people blossom and grow in their knowledge of this terrific art.
I certainly don't mean to assert that IKCA Kenpo is for everybody, it is not. The fact is thee are more than a few who are unable to handle the distance learning process. It takes a significant amount of self-motivation not everyone has. But I would assert that it is not substandard when learned and earned properly even when that learning occurs via video. What does properly mean? Proper practice, working the Kenpo on a live body (required during the testing process by the way), adherence to the standards set by the organization (video student or no), being held accountable for what you are required to learn. Frankly most who start the program never finish, isn't that the way it should be? You are certainly entitled to your opinion, as are others. May your journey be a fruitful and enlightened one.
Respects,
Bill Parsons
Triangle Kenpo Institute
