How do kung fu teachers in China teach?

[Xue Sheng]

No its not condescension or arrogance and yes, I too have studied with other sifu's and with other systems. However that does not make me a Yang Lu Chan or any other of the Masters you mentioned. And Xue Sheng, you of all people would have I thought, understood the Chinese psyche. Your Sifu will NEVER tell you he is unhappy. The Sifu who DEMANDS respect will however make you very aware of their feelings!!! There is a subtle difference. I understand where you guys are coming from. It is the western attitude of - "I've paid me money now deliver the goods". I was merely responding to the very good post of ggg214 which refelected very well my own attitude to my sifu. If you guys don't have the same attitude, that's fine by me, its up to you. But after 20 years in the CIMA's I am more satisfied and content that I have ever been with my art and my teacher.

Very best wishes

And your sifu trained with who and how many styles? Answer 2 styles and 3 sifus (or at least that is what his web page states). So how does that fit what you are talking about? And just because 2 are the Yang family it does not necessarily mean that either was happy about it.

And I understand the Chinese attitude and the Chinese sifu attitude rather well thank you. It is you who have no understanding whatsoever of where I am coming from with this.

I can take you back 40 to 50 years to Hong Kong and tell you with absolute certainty that there were multiple students that went back and forth between Tung Ying Chieh and Yang Shou Zhong and neither much cared. HOWEVER if you were considered a student by either, much what ggg214 is talking about, then that was different. Go to Yang Shou Zhong after being considered a student of Tung Ying Chieh and you were done as a student of Tung Ying Chieh. And just because you train with a Chinese Sifu does NOT mean that he takes you seriously as a student. But (now a days in and out of China) if he does take you seriously as a student you BEST have his permission to go train something else (and here’s a shock for you, I did) because if he finds out you did and did not tell him, he will still train you (maybe in the US, likely not in China) but not as much.

If you are happy with your art that is just fine, I have nothing against Yang style, I trained it for over 14 years now. From a sifu I highly respect that trained only one style with one and only one sifu (Tung Ying Chieh) and he was considered a student of Tung Ying Chieh BY Tung Ying Chieh. However for some reason I do not quite understand I need to train Xingyiquan and for some reason I cannot explain I found myself back a Chen. Still like Yang but. unlike many today. I take this stuff VERY seriously and if I do not feel that I can dedicate the time to training something that my sifu expects me to train I will not go waste his time like so many do in his class today. And I do honestly feel that IF you want to train Yang style and you want to be serious about it you really need to do the long form 3 times a day and then train any other form you know at least once (in my case that is 5 additional forms not counting the Qigong) and I have not even touched on how much Tuishou should be done yet.

And to tell you my Yang sifu's opinion of Taiji today he absolutely feels the Chen family is doing by far a MUCH better job at Taiji and has a much better understanding of Taiji as well than the Yang family does these days. Also the last time I went to train with Chen Zhenglei he was very aware of it and asked me to tell him hello for him and when I came back he was very interested in what I was taught. As to Xingyiquan he also knows I train it and has no problem with it and has not ever once made any comment that would tell me otherwise and believe me I have brought it up multiple times to try and see what he thinks.

As to this bit "Your Sifu will NEVER tell you he is unhappy" you might be surprised to hear I am INCREDIBLY sensitive to such things, it is a CHINESE thing (not exclusive to a sifu) and I happen to be married to a Chinese woman and know an awful lot of Chinese people so I best catch those sorts of things.

So just WHY the hell do you think I stopped going to train with my Yang sifu anyway. You have made an awful lot of assumptions about me thrown it a few insults and got a bit condescending in the process but you just don't seem to get it. And you accuse me of not understaning a CMA sifu.

As to the "I've paid me money now deliver the goods" again cute... insulting... but cute

I'm done here, think of me what you will I no longer care.

 

[Xue Sheng]

So it is a mindset thing... an individual mindset, not a cultural one. Some Si-Fus expect total and exclusive loyalty. Now if your Sifu is truly all-knowing, maybe that is justified. And maybe it is disrespectful for a child to question his elders even with "respect". But an adult should have open eyes, be willing to ask tough questions, and seek knowledge broadly. I understand the other point of view. I simply don't accept it!

Oh, and thanks for the history lesson Xue. It helps give some perspective.

Depending on the sifu it makes a big difference whether or not he considers you a student. He may teach you but that does not mean he takes you seriously. And others are much more closed about it while others are much more open.

Example

From what I gather from what I have been told someone like Tung Kai Ying is rather traditional and has kicked students out for doing things without his permission where my sifu is a bit more open about it. However there are things that if I did teach someone without his permission he would have kicked me out or anyone else for that matter if he had shown them.

 

[Ian]

Apologies to others on this post but I don’t post that much and was unsure of the etiquette regarding PMs. Is it ok to just PM or should this go on a new thread?
I was reading this post and realised that clfsean and Unkogami appear to have lived in Xi’an and I have a non-thread question regarding a tea shop in the Muslim quarter I have been trying to get information on.
Both apologies and thanks,
Ian

 

[East Winds]

Xue Sheng,

Thank you for that!! What can I say after such a tirade!! With experts like yourself on this board, clearly there is nothing of value I can add to these discussions so I will bow out. All I can say is that you still do not understand.

Very best wishes

 

[Xue Sheng]

Xue Sheng,

Thank you for that!! What can I say after such a tirade!! With experts like yourself on this board, clearly there is nothing of value I can add to these discussions so I will bow out. All I can say is that you still do not understand.

Very best wishes

Unlike some here, I have never claimed to be an expert, but I do have a pretty good grasp of the history and I have been doing this stuff for a long time.

What I find interesting is that you completely avoid anything that I said in all posts and go for the insult, it is apparently easier. What is of particular interest to me is you did not respond at all to the loyalty to one teacher bit you are so proud of when your Sifu claims 3 sifus and yet you still manage to come off as condescending.

But if you believe I do not understand and understanding means agreeing with you on this then all I can say is I am happy you feel that way.

 

[oxy]

What I find interesting is that you completely avoid anything that I said in all posts and go for the insult, it is apparently easier.

Having been on the receiving end of this avoid-and-insult tactic, I find it less interesting and more annoying (even when I'm not on the receiving end)

Apparently, he's using the Taiji style of debate (of his own admission) of "ward off" and "push". Can't see how a forum can have any honest discussion with this tactic going on.