How Bush Blew It

[7starmantis]

What I seriously think is not at issue. Reports have been issued that indicate no contingency for complete failure of the telecommunications networks were in place. If you have any factual information to demonstrate otherwise, I'm listening ....

Geez, once again, what reports? Having no contengency for an issue and having that issue take place or two completely seperate things. I've seen nothing to report that there was an issue with communications (not telecommunications specifiaclly).

http://www.house.gov/judiciary_democrats/news/releases.html

Please review the release data 9/13/2005 from the Congressional Research Service.

Your not serious are you? Ok, I didn't think it was an issue that the gov. requested aid, I thought that was pretty well known. However, there is more responsibility resting on the state than requesting federal aid. I thought that was apparent. The city of NO (and the state for that matter) have been more than willing to make public their intent to wait on the federal government for rescue, aid, and rebuilding.

So I guess your right, the state did nothing wrong, its all that Bush guys fault. Besides, "Bush doesn't care about black people".

7sm

 

[michaeledward]

Good Grief ... first you answer my question with another question. I reply and you completely disregard the reply. Get your head out of Bill O'Reilly's ***.

Geez, once again, what reports? Having no contengency for an issue and having that issue take place or two completely seperate things. I've seen nothing to report that there was an issue with communications (not telecommunications specifiaclly).

http://www.securitypipeline.com/170701365

From an IT perspective, telecommunications were a big part of that failure, Holcomb acknowledged. Landlines and power were down from the beginning of the storm. And though the emergency backup systems for wireless communications in New Orleans were based on natural gas, fire fears forced those systems offline in the immediate wake of Katrina.

Your not serious are you? Ok, I didn't think it was an issue that the gov. requested aid, I thought that was pretty well known. However, there is more responsibility resting on the state than requesting federal aid. I thought that was apparent. The city of NO (and the state for that matter) have been more than willing to make public their intent to wait on the federal government for rescue, aid, and rebuilding.

So I guess your right, the state did nothing wrong, its all that Bush guys fault. Besides, "Bush doesn't care about black people".

I am seldom not serious. If the Governor requested aid, according to the guidelines spelled out in the legal documents how is it the Federal Government can not respond according to those legal documents? I think the phrase 'intent to wait' is disingenous. When the emergency overwhelms your ability to act, or react, where should one turn for a response.

That's what the federal government is for; to provide security to its citizens. According the Robert T Stafford Disaster and Emergency Relief Assistance Act, the onus was on the Feds.

5143. COORDINATING OFFICERS {Sec. 302}

1. Appointment of Federal coordinating officer
   
   Immediately upon his declaration of a major disaster or emergency, the President shall appoint a Federal coordinating officer to operate in the affected area.
2. Functions of Federal coordinating officer
   
   In order to effectuate the purposes of this Act, the Federal coordinating officer, within the affected area, shall--
   1. make an initial appraisal of the types of relief most urgently needed;
   2. establish such field offices as he deems necessary and as are authorized by the President;
   3. coordinate the administration of relief, including activities of the State and local governments, the American National Red Cross, the Salvation Army, the Mennonite Disaster Service, and other relief or disaster assistance organizations, which agree to operate under his advice or direction, except that nothing contained in this Act shall limit or in any way affect the responsibilities of the American National Red Cross under the Act of January 5, 1905, as amended (33 Stat. 599) [36 U.S.C. §§ 1 et seq.]; and;
   4. take such other action, consistent with authority delegated to him by the President, and consistent with the provisions of this Act, as he may deem necessary to assist local citizens and public officials in promptly obtaining assistance to which they are entitled.;
   5. State coordinating officer When the President determines assistance under this Act is necessary, he shall request that the Governor of the affected State designate a State coordinating officer for the purpose of coordinating State and local disaster assistance efforts with those of the Federal Government.

 

[Phoenix44]

Why do we even have to be so technical?

Katrina was clearly visible on our TV screens for days before it hit--and it was big. If the President of the United States of America had flown down to New Orleans, stood on the Riverwalk with a few TV cameras and said, "Folks, this hurricane is the real thing. You must evacuate NOW. If you have no means of leaving, there are buses waiting at the Superdome, at the Convention Center, and in the Garden District departing every 30 minutes for the next two days. The National Guard will assist those physically unable to leave. Please get out now." Now THAT would have been leadership. That would have been a Commander In Chief, as he likes to refer to himself.

Please don't tell me about crowd control. Disney can manage crowd control. The New York City Department of Health has plans to immunize all 8 million of its residents in less than a week in the event of a smallpox outbreak. That's because they PLANNED and PRACTICED it. And they have qualified people at the helm.

 

[7starmantis]

Good Grief ... first you answer my question with another question. I reply and you completely disregard the reply. Get your head out of Bill O'Reilly's ***.

Golly gee ... First you say I disregard your reply, then you reply disregarding my own reply. And for the record, I'm not a big fan of O'Reilly's.

http://www.securitypipeline.com/170701365

Thank you, I dont understand why you seem irritated that I ask for a source when you say "reports show". That is an interesting article, one that raises some interesting questions from an interesting opinion. It does address the lag in time that the local government took in addressing the federal government, but only offers conjectures as to why that is, offering fear as a reason as well. The article does go on to say:

However, despite admitting that shortcomings in the government's rescue, recovery, and response efforts...Holcomb said there have been some successes in the last week.

Thats true, but still he offers little more than thin statements to prove either.

If this is your type of source for your information about this disaster, I would advise searching a bit more.

I am seldom not serious. If the Governor requested aid, according to the guidelines spelled out in the legal documents how is it the Federal Government can not respond according to those legal documents? I think the phrase 'intent to wait' is disingenous. When the emergency overwhelms your ability to act, or react, where should one turn for a response.

That's what the federal government is for; to provide security to its citizens. According the Robert T Stafford Disaster and Emergency Relief Assistance Act, the onus was on the Feds.

And what exactly is the local government for? There was a lag in both local and federal action, but we all must remember its tough to move troops or aid in the midst of inclimate weather. Not to mention over terrain destroyed by said weather. Have you ever been through a cat 5 hurricane yoeurself? Its not exactly forgiving.

7sm

 

[7starmantis]

If the President of the United States of America had flown down to New Orleans, stood on the Riverwalk with a few TV cameras and said, "Folks, this hurricane is the real thing. You must evacuate NOW. If you have no means of leaving, there are buses waiting at the Superdome, at the Convention Center, and in the Garden District departing every 30 minutes for the next two days. The National Guard will assist those physically unable to leave. Please get out now." Now THAT would have been leadership.

I guess the same could be said for the mayor of New Orleans or the Governor of Lousiana. Although its probably alot more theri job than his, since micromanagement is not really what the President of the United States needs to be doing with his time.

7sm

 

[Phoenix44]

Although its probably alot more theri job than his, since micromanagement is not really what the President of the United States needs to be doing with his time.

No, he needed to be riding his bicycle with Lance Armstrong.

 

[Tgace]

Who is to blame for New Orleans?
The Houston Home Journal (Warner Robins, GA) ^ | 09/07/2005 | William John Hagan

New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin, Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco and President Bush will be the prime targets of these attacks. I suspect that those with a vested interest in attacking the President, everyone from anti-war activists to Hilary Clinton, will attempt to place the blame on his shoulders. Unlike, Nagin and Blanco, the President has admitted that he should share in the accountability for the poor response to Katrina. Last week, President Bush readily admitted the actions of the federal government were “not acceptable”.

Bush’s primary failure was that he did not force Gov. Blanco to request federal help sooner. Bush was powerless to federalize the situation and Blanco failed to request help until August 26th. Given the track records of incompetence of both Blanco and Nagin, the administration should have publicly demanded that Blanco authorize help prior to the 26th.

The reality is that Bush was powerless to even order an evacuation of the city. As of Sunday the 28th neither Blanco nor Nagin ordered people to leave the city. President Bush was forced to request this action after the mayor and governor failed to act. The delay of this mandatory evacuation order by Nagin resulted in the death of thousand of poor residents. New Orleans is a city where one does not need a car; most of the poor don’t own them so, by Sunday, they had no way to get out. Days earlier Gov. Blanco should have confiscated every school bus in the state to begin an orderly exodus and request that the air force assist in an evacuation. Instead, she did nothing until Bush suggested she take action.

As a do-nothing Governor, Blanco bares the majority of responsibility; while, Mayor Nagin has simply proven that his is far too paranoid to run a major city. This week, rather then worrying about those dying throughout New Orleans, on two occasions he has told the press that the Central Intelligence Agency is trying to kill him. He told a reporter for the Associated Press: "If the CIA slips me something and next week you don't see me, you'll all know what happened." He said this prior to telling CNN that, the "CIA might take me out." Clearly this man is mentally ill and should not be allowed to lead New Orleans during this period of crisis.

 

[7starmantis]

No, he needed to be riding his bicycle with Lance Armstrong.

So I guess you would consider yourself qualified to create a schedule for the President including a ranking system of importance for each item?

We have to remember that in our eyes when a situation presents itself, its the most important thing in the world. If it affects us in any way, we expect everyone to stop everything else and come take care of that situation. While Karina was being handled there were still terrorist attacks and much, much more to be handled. Thats why the president has a cabinet and not just one man for the entire job.

7sm

 

[Tgace]

Who's to Blame for Delayed Response to Katrina? (ABC News)

NEW ORLEANS, Sept. 6, 2005 — In New Orleans, those in peril and those in power have pointed the finger squarely at the federal government for the delayed relief effort.

But experts say when natural disasters strike, it is the primary responsibility of state and local governments — not the federal government — to respond.

New Orleans' own comprehensive emergency plan raises the specter of "having large numbers of people … stranded" and promises "the city … will utilize all available resources to quickly and safely evacuate threatened areas."
"Special arrangements will be made to evacuate persons unable to transport themselves," the plan states.

When Hurricane Katrina hit, however, that plan was not followed completely.

Instead of sending city buses to evacuate those who could not make it out on their own, people in New Orleans were told to go to the Superdome and the Convention Center, where no one provided sufficient sustenance or security.

Nonetheless, some experts argue that the federal government should have been more proactive.

Which is true too. The problem with the current "blame game" is that people are more concerned with blaming the president for anything and everything rather than really looking at what the most vital breakdowns were. Granted, the post hurricane recovery effort should have been faster and better co-ordinated. But if the City and State gvts. had acted promptly and effectively BEFORE the hurricane struck all those people could have been evacuated.

 

[michaeledward]

Mr. William John Hagan has got his head up O'Reilly's *** too.

Unlike, Nagin and Blanco, the President has admitted that he should share in the accountability for the poor response to Katrina. Last week, President Bush readily admitted the actions of the federal government were “not acceptable”.

President Bush has not 'readily admitted' diddly squat. Let's take a look at his exact quote...

Katrina exposed serious problems in our response capability at all levels of government. And to the extent that the federal government didn't fully do its job right, I take responsibility"

Question ... Mr. President, What was the extent that the federal government didn't do its job right?

For what are you taking responsibility?

For placing political operatives at the head of the Federal Emergency Management Agency? If you are taking responsibility for this item, why was it you did not terminate Mr. Brown from that position.... Why was it that when you were asked about his resignation, you claimed you had no knowledge? How is it 'responsible' for you to not be aware of the workings of the highest levels of your Administration?

How about when FEMA turned away some 500 boats on Wednesday August 31st? Are you taking responsibility for the deaths of those citizens that could have been rescued by those boats? Or, Maybe you're taking responsibility for the FEMA agents that turned away three-truck-loads of water from Wal-Mart.

Well, Mr. President, now that you've noticed the Federal Governments' response was less than adequate; and now that you are taking responsibility for those inadequacies, what actions are you going to take because of it?

Show me. Don't Tell Me.

 

[Tgace]

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=4802

We now know that New Orleans had a plan, but for some reason, it wasn’t implemented. It must have been that damn Iraq War that sucked all the funds from the Louisiana state treasury. In reality, for over six years the state and the city had raked in taxpayer dollars from the federal Office of Domestic Preparedness (ODP) to the tune of 140 million bucks! How do we know this? Because the leaders of disaster agencies in the state of Louisiana told us so and also showed us how this money was spent. As we’ll see, they’ve done quite well feeding at the homeland security trough.

The Louisiana state-level strategy to respond to disasters or terrorist attacks was submitted to the ODP on 31 December 2003. This was a requirement established by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), and was the only federal agency in recent memory to actually withhold funds to states until workable, threat-based plans were submitted for review. Colonel Jay Mayeaux of the Louisiana Office of Homeland Security & Emergency Preparedness presented the state’s strategy and funding streams to train and equip state agencies for disaster response based upon the state plan. These agencies include the Fire Service, Law Enforcement, HazMat (Hazardous Materials), EMS, Public Safety Communications, Public Health, and of course Emergency Management.

For Fiscal Year (FY) 2003, ODP grants were allocated in the following amounts: Equipment - $6,633,000, including $1 million for equipment for the Louisiana Urban Search & Rescue Team; disaster and terrorist response exercises - $1,658,000; training -$497,000; planning and administration - $663,000. In addition to the nearly 9.5 million dollars the state initially received, an FY03 supplemental grant totaling nearly $21 million was allocated that included $17 million for direct assistance to local communities. When funds granted for urban security initiatives for New Orleans and critical infrastructure programs are thrown in, the total supplemental FY 03 monies given to the state amounts to $31,319,661!

But it gets better. In FY 04, the ODP granted over $51 million to the state including about $7 million each for Baton Rouge and New Orleans for further work on the urban area security initiative (UASI). According to state officials, the total for ODP grants to the state of Louisiana from1999 to 2003, including supplemental allocations was $100,502,648![/b]

US taxpayers were also very generous in 2005. The DHS database shows that Louisiana had several disaster response agencies receive continued funding, including $17,679,253 for the state Homeland Security Grant Program; $2,895,235 for Emergency Management Performance Grant Program; $910,368 for the Metropolitan Medical Response System Program; and $14,531,675 for the Urban Area Security Initiative. The total amount of federal grants to state of Louisiana for 2005 was $42,669,788. Since 1999, Louisiana has received over $143 million in direct grants for security, communications, and other disaster response initiatives. This amount doesn’t include direct grants to the city of New Orleans. For example, in FY03 alone the city received about $6.3 million for first responders and $6.4 million for port security.

And according to the Louisiana State Police, they had specifically planned for a variety of disasters including hurricanes, floods, and hazmat (hazardous materials) incidents. The State Police were even called upon to assist during Hurricane Isabel in September of 2003 to provide storm surge models, wind and rain forecasts, and storm track models. In fact, the LSP seems to have wisely spent money on developing a high tech capability to enhance situational awareness, obtaining mapping and geo-spatial imagery technology, aerial photography, petrochemical pipeline information, development of evacuation plans [emphasis added], and communications interoperability. Where all of this expertise and gadgetry disappeared to when Katrina hit is anybody’s guess.

 

[Marginal]

Local failures are a local problem.

 

[michaeledward]

Katrina exposed serious problems in our response capability at all levels of government. And to the extent that the federal government didn't fully do its job right, I take responsibility.

Mr. President, now that you have taken responsibility for the federal governments' inability to do its job right, are you going to either terminate Secretary Chertoff's service, or ask for his resignation?

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/krwashbureau/20050914/ts_krwashbureau/_wea_katrina_response_exclusive_1

Even before the storm struck the Gulf Coast, Chertoff could have ordered federal agencies into action without any request from state or local officials. Federal Emergency Management Agency chief Michael Brown had only limited authority to do so until about 36 hours after the storm hit, when Chertoff designated him as the "principal federal official" in charge of the storm. ....






But Chertoff - not Brown - was in charge of managing the national response to a catastrophic disaster, according to the National Response Plan, the federal government's blueprint for how agencies will handle major natural disasters or terrorist incidents. An order issued by President Bush in 2003 also assigned that responsibility to the homeland security director.


But according to a memo obtained by Knight Ridder, Chertoff didn't shift that power to Brown until late afternoon or evening on Aug. 30, about 36 hours after Katrina hit Louisiana and Mississippi. That same memo suggests that Chertoff may have been confused about his lead role in disaster response and that of his department.

 

[7starmantis]

wow....just wow

 

[hardheadjarhead]

Here's a timeline of the events leading up to the disaster.


http://www.thinkprogress.org/katrina-timeline


Truly, Rome burned while Nero fiddled.


Read that start to finish. Blame game?



Regards,


Steve

 

[kelly keltner]

Well, Let's see ... President's Top Aides as named in the article:

• Chief of Staff - Andrew Card
• Deputy Chief of Staff - Joe Hagin
• Counselor - Dan Bartlett
• Spokesman - Scott McClellan

That seems pretty substantial to me.

You are making bold claims about Evan Thomas as if you don't even know who he is. Turn off your radio.

The only thing full of 'fluff' around here are your posts.

You should reread the article then reread what I wrote.
fluf boy

 

[modarnis]

No, he needed to be riding his bicycle with Lance Armstrong.

Which occurred on August 20th and is completly irrelevant to this discussion

Armstrong Rides with President

 

[michaeledward]

Front page of the USA Today .... TODAY!

Help is on the way, but it's unclear where
Mix-up and miscommunication complicate hurricane relief efforts
Mimi Hall, Kevin Johnson & Mike Linn

100 Semi-trailers, full of water, ice and other relief supplies, are sitting in a parking lot, in Montgomery, Alabama, waiting for a destination and a 'go order' from FEMA. They have been waiting dispatch information for a week.

What's more, the government has been paying these truckers $600.00 per day. The truckers are really loving that profit margin - six hundred bucks a day to hang out in a Parking Lot.

Is this relevant to the discussion?

 

[Tgace]

You obviously have never been part of a military operation, or a disaster relief effort....

 

[Tgace]

Side issue..with all the "officials wouldnt let (X) supplies, trucks, boats etc. into the city" stories. Rule 1 of evacuation. Everybody out, no potential new victims in. Soldiers/LEO's are told "nobody without this ID gets past. Period." Somehow all of these stories get turned into some big example of incompetence. Things like this have happened since the dawn of organized human endeavor.

Some guy called Murphy.