H&K USP 9mm

[Rich Parsons]

Is there anything I should know about this gun?
http://www.hecklerkoch-usa.com/index.jsp?loc=101&SITEID=A&PartNumber=704501

Just looking into one.

 

[Grenadier]

An excellent choice. It's reliable with a wide variety of ammo, although I would not shoot unjacketed lead out of its polygonally rifled barrel. Exceptions OK are when using Lasercast / Oregon Trail bullets.

The gun soaks up recoil very handily, and even the most recoil-sensitive folks can shoot this gun.

 

[arnisandyz]

Not exactly a value leader IMHO as other guns can do the same job for around $200 less - but it is a good quality gun. Grip felt somewhat large for me, the controls (mag release and slidelock) were a bit of a reach. Seemed larger than the average polymer 9mm which you might like if you have big hands. Large trigger guard which is good if you shoot alot with gloves on. Seemed a bit top heavy compared to Glock or M&P. I would say on par with an XD. Bore-axis is more Sig like. I believe this gun is also available in different trigger variants so you have the option of buying a double/single with decocker, DAO and other configurations.

All-in-all a quality piece, just not for me. If you're sold on it its a great gun, but other guns to test-drive would be the Glock, Smith & Wesson M&P (my current favorite), Springfield XD, Berreta Storm, and the CZ SP01. Then you have your old reliables in the Sig 226, Berretta 92, and Hi-Power. Sorry if I left any out, but these are the only ones I've shot.

 

[Marvin]

So would 550+tax be a good price for a new USP 9mm?

 

[Rich Parsons]

Not exactly a value leader IMHO as other guns can do the same job for around $200 less - but it is a good quality gun. Grip felt somewhat large for me, the controls (mag release and slidelock) were a bit of a reach. Seemed larger than the average polymer 9mm which you might like if you have big hands. Large trigger guard which is good if you shoot alot with gloves on. Seemed a bit top heavy compared to Glock or M&P. I would say on par with an XD. Bore-axis is more Sig like. I believe this gun is also available in different trigger variants so you have the option of buying a double/single with decocker, DAO and other configurations.

All-in-all a quality piece, just not for me. If you're sold on it its a great gun, but other guns to test-drive would be the Glock, Smith & Wesson M&P (my current favorite), Springfield XD, Berreta Storm, and the CZ SP01. Then you have your old reliables in the Sig 226, Berretta 92, and Hi-Power. Sorry if I left any out, but these are the only ones I've shot.

Andy,

What you mention as the the possible draw back are why I like it. It seems to fit my hand real nice.

The Glock while a nice piece, I have a grip issue with the finger ridges which do not line up with my large fingers. I have held the Springfield and the Berretta and a friends Sig before. What seems like the best fit to me so far is this H&K.

Thank you for the feedback, it will be considered.

 

[Rich Parsons]

An excellent choice. It's reliable with a wide variety of ammo, although I would not shoot unjacketed lead out of its polygonally rifled barrel. Exceptions OK are when using Lasercast / Oregon Trail bullets.

The gun soaks up recoil very handily, and even the most recoil-sensitive folks can shoot this gun.

Does the unjacketed lead build up over a short period of time on the polygonal barrel or is it something else?

Thanks

 

[Rich Parsons]

So would 550+tax be a good price for a new USP 9mm?

I think that would be a good price.

 

[Blotan Hunka]

I have to agree w/ Andy. Its a good gun but there are others just as good or better for less $$. But if its a good fit and you dont mind the price then go for it.

 

[Blotan Hunka]

This day and age I dont see ANY need to be shooting pure lead out of any gun. For target use theres plenty of cheap FMJ out there.

 

[Marvin]

Does the unjacketed lead build up over a short period of time on the polygonal barrel or is it something else?

Thanks

Rich, the polygonal rifling is a little different that normal rifling( Glocks have a similar type) the designers say it is to have a better bullet to barrel fit. The problem with straight lead is that it fouls up the grooves of the rifilng, maybe enough to cause damage to the gun or injury to the shooter.

 

[Marvin]

This day and age I dont see ANY need to be shooting pure lead out of any gun. For target use theres plenty of cheap FMJ out there.

I agree, unless one is a cowboy shootist

 

[Blotan Hunka]

That would be about the only reason.

 

[Rich Parsons]

This day and age I dont see ANY need to be shooting pure lead out of any gun. For target use theres plenty of cheap FMJ out there.

While I understand that. As an Engineer type I like to understand the why(s) of an issue. If it jsut the slag build up that causes the damage then I can "see" that. If it is the malable issue of lead with the polygonal then I want to understand why it could cause damage. Not challenging the point, or the value of it, just trying to understand.

Thank you all

 

[Rich Parsons]

Rich, the polygonal rifling is a little different that normal rifling( Glocks have a similar type) the designers say it is to have a better bullet to barrel fit. The problem with straight lead is that it fouls up the grooves of the rifilng, maybe enough to cause damage to the gun or injury to the shooter.

This is the answer I expected. But like I said, I want to understand and not just assume.

 

[Blotan Hunka]

While I understand that. As an Engineer type I like to understand the why(s) of an issue. If it jsut the slag build up that causes the damage then I can "see" that. If it is the malable issue of lead with the polygonal then I want to understand why it could cause damage. Not challenging the point, or the value of it, just trying to understand.

Thank you all

As I understand it, the lead can build up in the barrel until it reaches a point where serious overpressure can occur. Then KABOOOM!!


From the guys who know...


http://www.glockfaq.com/reloading.htm

Can I shoot lead bullets in my Glock?
This has been debated on rec.guns and GlockTalk about 10,000 times. There are basically 2 schools of thought:

School #1: Don't Do It
Glock barrels use special polygonal rifling not found in most handguns. This rifling is one of the main reasons Glocks are extremely accurate guns. However, the same rifling can cause a high degree of leading when not using jacketed bullets. In other words some lead from the bullet sticks to the inside of the barrel when it is fired. Too much leading can quickly lead to high pressures which can cause the barrel and/or gun to break or even explode. Most people who weigh in on this subject fall into this category including Glock Inc.

School #2: Don't Worry About It
If you clean your barrel well and do it every time you shoot there will be no significant leading. Many, many people use lead bullets almost exclusively in their Glocks and do not have any problems whatsoever.

Additional notes from Hoss:
Not all lead is created equally. You can shoot lead in your Glock (probably) but you should use a hard lead from a reputable manufacturer. The homemade lead bullets made from wheel weights and other recycled lead should be avoided! Just becuase one type of lead bullet and load shoot fine in one glock does not mean it will be safe in others. Each barrel is different and must be carefully checked when first using lead.

Additional notes from JT:
You *can* shoot lead in a polygonal barrel, as many Glocksters do. But you need to be aware of some potential dangers in using lead bullets, not to mention voiding your Glock warranty if you use non-factory ammo.

First, if you decide to use lead bullets, use hardcast bullets at medium velocities for best results. This will reduce potential leading of the bore. Theoretically, polygonal rifling allows the bullet to seal the gases better than traditional land and groove rifling, thereby increasing velocities but also increasing potential problems with bore-leading-induced pressure spikes. Lead particles from the bullets have no where to hide in polygonal rifling as in the lands and grooves of conventional rifling and with better bullet-to-bore sealing, serious pressure spikes can develop when the bore is fouled.

However, note that some dismiss the purported velocity increases with polygonal rifling. Mike Orrick (GlockTalk's "BrokenArrows") has pointed out that his chronographed results of identical loads in conventionally-rifled barrels versus same-length polygonal barrels yielded higher velocities in some of the conventionally-rifled barrels.

Secondly, absolutely get all the lead out after at least every 200 rounds to avoid lead buildup, pressure spikes and potential corresponding kBs! With the tighter seal of the bullet, pressures can increase significantly in polygonal barrels. There have even been reports of Ranier-type bullets shedding bits of copper jacket in polygonal barrels, causing the same pressure spikes that are caused by excessive leading. Just be sure to use hard-cast lead bullets or good-quality jacketed bullets and keep the velocities down to earth.

Thirdly, polygonal rifling doesn't get the same grip on the bullet as conventional rifling. This may affect accuracy with some loads, especially hot ones. Even with using copper-jacketed bullets, some LEAs have reportedly banned the use of polygonal barrels in duty guns because of the potential difficulty in forensically identifying the rifling patterns on a bullet shot from a polygonal barrel. IOW, it's sometimes impossible to identify which polygonal barrel a particular bullet was shot from. Who shot whom?

Another recommendation is to moly-coat your lead bullets and/or treat your barrel with one of the spaceage lubricants, such as TW25B spray from Kleen-Bore. This will definitely help the cleaning process and may even increase velocities slightly and help with accuracy.

Last, but not least, most experts recommend getting a conventionally-rifled barrel from replacement barrelmakers such as Jarvis or Bar-Sto if you shoot a lot of lead. These barrels generally offer more case support than stock Glock barrels as a bonus. Use your replacement barrel for practice and the stock barrel for carry.

 

[Rich Parsons]

As I understand it, the lead can build up in the barrel until it reaches a point where serious overpressure can occur. Then KABOOOM!!

Frame Cracking and shrapnel and the whole nine yards. That would not be good to the person holding onto the gun.

Thanks

 

[Marvin]

Frame Cracking and shrapnel and the whole nine yards. That would not be good to the person holding onto the gun.

Thanks

Hmmm???
You know of anyone to whom that has happend.

 

[Marvin]

Is there anything I should know about this gun?
http://www.hecklerkoch-usa.com/index.jsp?loc=101&SITEID=A&PartNumber=704501

Just looking into one.

Oh and welcome to the "dark side" lol

 

[Cruentus]

I think it's a nice gun if it fits you well and you can get it at a good price. Marvin, 550 plus tax is what I would consider a very good price.

As to KB; now it all makes sense, the use of lead and all. I would imagine that anyone who has had a Glock blow up in their hand is probably one of those people who has weird crap happened to them all the time :lol2: ; but that is good to know about the lead, considering that I have a glock myself. I guess it's good that I haven't been using lead, huh? :redeme:

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Andy,

What you mention as the the possible draw back are why I like it. It seems to fit my hand real nice.

The Glock while a nice piece, I have a grip issue with the finger ridges which do not line up with my large fingers. I have held the Springfield and the Berretta and a friends Sig before. What seems like the best fit to me so far is this H&K.

Thank you for the feedback, it will be considered.

Hey Rich,

It is a good handgun though it does not fit my hand well and would not work for me. (plus I love Glock's) However, since it fits your hand and you like it you might enjoy this one alot.