Gripping a knife

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frank raud

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As others have said, your grip depends on the knife and what you are doing with it. I think it is very important to also understand that Fairbairn's method also used a SPECIFIC knife that was taught to the soldiers. The knife was designed for mainly stabbing and also for using the butt of the handle to smash as well. The hammer grip was the best grip for how his knife was to be used.

View attachment 29324
If you look in Get Tough!, Fairbairn shows a Saber grip and an icepick grip for the use of the FS. I'm not aware of any pommel work with the FS knife, although the similar V42 stilletto has a skull crusher pommel.
 
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frank raud

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As others have said, your grip depends on the knife and what you are doing with it. I think it is very important to also understand that Fairbairn's method also used a SPECIFIC knife that was taught to the soldiers. The knife was designed for mainly stabbing and also for using the butt of the handle to smash as well. The hammer grip was the best grip for how his knife was to be used.

View attachment 29324
Let me clarify my previous post. The demonstrated grip for the FS knife is the Saber Grip or ice pick grip, and there is no pommel work for the FS blade. The Smatchet, a hefty short sword is demonstated with a hammer grip and shows the use of the pommel.
 

punisher73

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Let me clarify my previous post. The demonstrated grip for the FS knife is the Saber Grip or ice pick grip, and there is no pommel work for the FS blade. The Smatchet, a hefty short sword is demonstated with a hammer grip and shows the use of the pommel.
Yep, you are correct. Got my knives mixed up with Fairbairn and the later V42 techniques. Good call!

Its what happens when I try to go from memory while battling CRAFT disease (Can't Remember A Freaking Thing). LOL
 

Alan0354

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I did not read the entire thread, but I am interested in grip. I am just starting not to long ago, I find the grips best suit from slashing and stabbing and thrusting the heavy bag is this:
1) For slashing and cutting, I use SABER grip with thumb on top of the knife so I can control the knife better.
2) for thrusting(shanking) and stabbing, I definitely use HAMMER grip. I found I hurt my thumb sometimes if I thrust with SABER grip. So I practice switching grip on the fly depending on whether I am slashing or thrusting.

Is that the right idea?
 

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I did not read the entire thread, but I am interested in grip. I am just starting not to long ago, I find the grips best suit from slashing and stabbing and thrusting the heavy bag is this:
1) For slashing and cutting, I use SABER grip with thumb on top of the knife so I can control the knife better.
2) for thrusting(shanking) and stabbing, I definitely use HAMMER grip. I found I hurt my thumb sometimes if I thrust with SABER grip. So I practice switching grip on the fly depending on whether I am slashing or thrusting.

Is that the right idea?
How much power are you putting into the strokes?
 

Alan0354

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How much power are you putting into the strokes?
I really follow how I strike with a cane shown here for knife:

When I slash, I do like punching straight out, but at the same time turn my body to create the rotating slash motion. This helps to make the slash very compact, not like wild swing. At close to point of contact, it's almost FULL POWER.

I use Saber grip for slashing, I use the Idea like the Wing Chung nudging punch that using the wrist to turn upwards to use the baby knuckle to punch at last moment to ADD to the speed and force. I just reverse the motion by turning the wrist down and use the thumb to push the knife down at the last moment before contact to add speed to the slashing movement(to create a chopping motion). For 45 or 90deg slashing, it's the same except the wrist motion follows the angle of the slash.

Even though it is slash, I add the chopping component in it. Just like LaMont Glass, the stick not only snap out, but have a chopping component also.

Then of cause pull back as fast as I reach out.

I just improvise to put what I learn in kick boxing punches and stick fight, using the technique that add speed and power and use it in knife practice.

When I do the slashing, I definitely hear the sleeve slapping sound in the air.
 

tkdroamer

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I really follow how I strike with a cane shown here for knife:

When I slash, I do like punching straight out, but at the same time turn my body to create the rotating slash motion. This helps to make the slash very compact, not like wild swing. At close to point of contact, it's almost FULL POWER.

I use Saber grip for slashing, I use the Idea like the Wing Chung nudging punch that using the wrist to turn upwards to use the baby knuckle to punch at last moment to ADD to the speed and force. I just reverse the motion by turning the wrist down and use the thumb to push the knife down at the last moment before contact to add speed to the slashing movement(to create a chopping motion). For 45 or 90deg slashing, it's the same except the wrist motion follows the angle of the slash.

Even though it is slash, I add the chopping component in it. Just like LaMont Glass, the stick not only snap out, but have a chopping component also.

Then of cause pull back as fast as I reach out.

I just improvise to put what I learn in kick boxing punches and stick fight, using the technique that add speed and power and use it in knife practice.

When I do the slashing, I definitely hear the sleeve slapping sound in the air.
It is the hardest thing I found to train, but there is resistance pulling a long blade back that would change what or how you were practicing the cane on BOB. The cane is bouncing back toward you. A penetrating blade is going to stick a little.
The striking motion would be the same. But if you slice and penetrate, there is a resistance to consider when returning the blade. It changes the geometry of the motion and thusly the mechanics.
It doesn't last very long but a plastic 55-gallon drum mostly full of water wrapped in thick, dense foam or rubber provides good resistance. I was lucky enough to get two old and torn wrestling mats from a high school. I have wrapped cut pieces of it over the barrel for years.
The Bob's that we end up breaking in kicking class end up getting butchered. :)
 

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I really follow how I strike with a cane shown here for knife:
And that is the problem. You don't need to do that with a knife. The amount of force needed to penetrate with a knife is remarkably low.

A knife is not a fist. A stick is not a katana. They're used differently.

Turn off YouBoob. Get a real trainer. Learn to use things properly.
 

Alan0354

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It is the hardest thing I found to train, but there is resistance pulling a long blade back that would change what or how you were practicing the cane on BOB. The cane is bouncing back toward you. A penetrating blade is going to stick a little.
The striking motion would be the same. But if you slice and penetrate, there is a resistance to consider when returning the blade. It changes the geometry of the motion and thusly the mechanics.
It doesn't last very long but a plastic 55-gallon drum mostly full of water wrapped in thick, dense foam or rubber provides good resistance. I was lucky enough to get two old and torn wrestling mats from a high school. I have wrapped cut pieces of it over the barrel for years.
The Bob's that we end up breaking in kicking class end up getting butchered. :)
I use a plastic knife with a rubber cane foot glued to the tip to shank and slash on the heavy kicking bag. I practice 50:50 between in air and on the heavy bag.

How come people keep talking about BOB, Is heavy bag just the same?

Good to know it stick to the object after slashing and shanking. I do practice pulling back, I try to pull back as fast as I attack.
 

Rich Parsons

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I really follow how I strike with a cane shown here for knife:

Alan are you saying that you use this impact optimized distance technique for your knife (short and edged) practice?
If you look at Lamont's body work, his weight is on the same side at the point of impact. For his demonstration he did it with lead leg change. It helps with the distance he is discussing.

The point to also look at is watch his knees as they turn with his Hip Snap at the point of impact. They come together .
This is good for the impact and the snap for range.

If one was to use the snap for range with a long weapon one might cast it out where the point is past the target and the edge can make contact and instead of the hip rotation Lamont does, one does a weight transition to the back side which would create a draw cut.
This draw gut and the snap is enough to make contact and let the edge do its' design work of cutting.

I tried to explain this before.

When I slash, I do like punching straight out, but at the same time turn my body to create the rotating slash motion. This helps to make the slash very compact, not like wild swing. At close to point of contact, it's almost FULL POWER.

Hold in Hammer grip for this drill.
Stand with legs normal and just move from high right to mid left with the blade in the right hand.
This is a basic slash.

Now put your right foot forward in a normal distance for walking. Weight is slightly on the right leg / lead leg. 51+ %. Not 100%.
Somewhere in between. And it really depends upon how far out one wants to reach and how long of a stride one is in.
Now from this point keep the elbow bent and close to the chest. Make the hammer fist diagonally across the body and when the hand reaches the imaginary line that bisects your body into left and right, then shift your weight to your left side. This draws the blade across the target, keeps the weapon close and in a strong frame.
Repeat and then once it feels ok try it on the other side with a backhand hammer fist.

The Hammer fist is to keep the blade about 90 deg to your wrist.
This forces you to bend your knees more to find the angle for best contact. This can come later. Get as describes above. then other points can be added.

I use Saber grip for slashing, I use the Idea like the Wing Chung nudging punch that using the wrist to turn upwards to use the baby knuckle to punch at last moment to ADD to the speed and force. I just reverse the motion by turning the wrist down and use the thumb to push the knife down at the last moment before contact to add speed to the slashing movement(to create a chopping motion). For 45 or 90deg slashing, it's the same except the wrist motion follows the angle of the slash.

Even though it is slash, I add the chopping component in it. Just like LaMont Glass, the stick not only snap out, but have a chopping component also.

Then of cause pull back as fast as I reach out.

I just improvise to put what I learn in kick boxing punches and stick fight, using the technique that add speed and power and use it in knife practice.

When I do the slashing, I definitely hear the sleeve slapping sound in the air.
 

Alan0354

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Alan are you saying that you use this impact optimized distance technique for your knife (short and edged) practice?
If you look at Lamont's body work, his weight is on the same side at the point of impact. For his demonstration he did it with lead leg change. It helps with the distance he is discussing.

The point to also look at is watch his knees as they turn with his Hip Snap at the point of impact. They come together .
This is good for the impact and the snap for range.

If one was to use the snap for range with a long weapon one might cast it out where the point is past the target and the edge can make contact and instead of the hip rotation Lamont does, one does a weight transition to the back side which would create a draw cut.
This draw gut and the snap is enough to make contact and let the edge do its' design work of cutting.

I tried to explain this before.



Hold in Hammer grip for this drill.
Stand with legs normal and just move from high right to mid left with the blade in the right hand.
This is a basic slash.

Now put your right foot forward in a normal distance for walking. Weight is slightly on the right leg / lead leg. 51+ %. Not 100%.
Somewhere in between. And it really depends upon how far out one wants to reach and how long of a stride one is in.
Now from this point keep the elbow bent and close to the chest. Make the hammer fist diagonally across the body and when the hand reaches the imaginary line that bisects your body into left and right, then shift your weight to your left side. This draws the blade across the target, keeps the weapon close and in a strong frame.
Repeat and then once it feels ok try it on the other side with a backhand hammer fist.

The Hammer fist is to keep the blade about 90 deg to your wrist.
This forces you to bend your knees more to find the angle for best contact. This can come later. Get as describes above. then other points can be added.
I read you post a few times, I can't figure out what you are saying.
 

Alan0354

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Alan are you saying that you use this impact optimized distance technique for your knife (short and edged) practice?
If you look at Lamont's body work, his weight is on the same side at the point of impact. For his demonstration he did it with lead leg change. It helps with the distance he is discussing.

The point to also look at is watch his knees as they turn with his Hip Snap at the point of impact. They come together .
This is good for the impact and the snap for range.

If one was to use the snap for range with a long weapon one might cast it out where the point is past the target and the edge can make contact and instead of the hip rotation Lamont does, one does a weight transition to the back side which would create a draw cut.
This draw gut and the snap is enough to make contact and let the edge do its' design work of cutting.

I tried to explain this before.



Hold in Hammer grip for this drill.
Stand with legs normal and just move from high right to mid left with the blade in the right hand.
This is a basic slash.

Now put your right foot forward in a normal distance for walking. Weight is slightly on the right leg / lead leg. 51+ %. Not 100%.
Somewhere in between. And it really depends upon how far out one wants to reach and how long of a stride one is in.
Now from this point keep the elbow bent and close to the chest. Make the hammer fist diagonally across the body and when the hand reaches the imaginary line that bisects your body into left and right, then shift your weight to your left side. This draws the blade across the target, keeps the weapon close and in a strong frame.
Repeat and then once it feels ok try it on the other side with a backhand hammer fist.

The Hammer fist is to keep the blade about 90 deg to your wrist.
This forces you to bend your knees more to find the angle for best contact. This can come later. Get as describes above. then other points can be added.
Anyway you can make a short video, I want to see what you are talking.

Thanks
 
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frank raud

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Hmm, I wonfer what grip Mr. Linck advocates for a rock?
 

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Dirty Dog

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Hmm, I wonfer what grip Mr. Linck advocates for a rock?
One thing to note is that in the (admittedly brief) text, each of the sharp objects is clearly intended first and foremost as a stabbing weapon. I've said many times. Cutting is messy. Stabbing is deadly.
 
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