Goju ryu and Shorei Goju Ryu

[SFC JeffJ]

What are the differences between Goju Ryu and Shorei Goju Ryu?

 

[jujutsu_indonesia]

goju-ryu is the style, shoreikan goju-ryu is the dojo of late master Toguchi Seikichi.

 

[SFC JeffJ]

Thanks, I thought they were different styles.

Jeff

 

[Brandon Fisher]

Same ideas maybe taught differently.

 

[twendkata71]

Which Shorei goju ryu are you talking about. The Shorei kan Goju ryu of Toguchi Hanshi, or the Shorei Goju that was taught by Robert Trias? There is a big difference between the two.

What are the differences between Goju Ryu and Shorei Goju Ryu?

 

[Robert Lee]

Toguchi Added tandaku kata di iche and di ni to Goju ryu he called unified kata in hopes to spread it to all Karate but that failed. Other then that it is basicly the same okinawan Goju ryu. Then you also have japanese goju that is slightly different.

 

[pstarr]

Yesm Twendkata71 said it - there's Shorei Goju which was created by Robert Trias (founder of the USKA) and then there's Shoreikan Goju-ryu which is actually a form of Goju. They're not the same animal at all.

 

[twendkata71]

Toguchi's Shorei kan was kept as close to Miyagi's teachings as possible. Even though he was not an original,direct student of Miyagi's. I have seen several history listings that state that Hiagoanna(Miyagi's teacher,not Morio Hiagoanna) used the term Shorei ryu to discribe what he taught. I have also read in historical documents that he only used the term Naha te.
Trias's Shorei goju gets its goju lineage from Masifumi Suzuki 10th dan Goju ryu,who ran the Nippon Seibukan International(Which was one of the largest martial arts schools in Japan) before his death. Trias traveled to Japan to train and learn from Suzuki for some time. Suzuki taught Goju ryu and Judo. He was in the karate movie (The street fighter,with Sonny Chiba),I could not understand why Trias didn't add more of the Goju ryu kata into his curriculum. Later exponents of the Shorei goju karate(or Shorei goju kempo) did add more of the traditional Goju ryu kata.

Yesm Twendkata71 said it - there's Shorei Goju which was created by Robert Trias (founder of the USKA) and then there's Shoreikan Goju-ryu which is actually a form of Goju. They're not the same animal at all.

 

[Brandon Fisher]

My understanding was that Hanshi Trias founded and taught Shuri Ryu not Shorei Goju Ryu. Even Hanshi Roberta Trias-Kelley (Robert Trias' Daughter) teaches Shuri Ryu. Am I way off base here?

 

[pstarr]

It's true that Mr. Trias founded and taught what he called Shuri-ryu.

My understanding is that he initially taught several Goju kata and then later wanted to eliminate them from his newer Shuri-ryu style. A number of his senior students wanted to retain these forms while also practicing the newer Shuri-ryu and Goju-Shorei was born-

At least that's what I was told many, many moons ago...

 

[Brandon Fisher]

Interesting I never had heard that before.

 

[Grenadier]

It's true that Mr. Trias founded and taught what he called Shuri-ryu.

My understanding is that he initially taught several Goju kata and then later wanted to eliminate them from his newer Shuri-ryu style. A number of his senior students wanted to retain these forms while also practicing the newer Shuri-ryu and Goju-Shorei was born-

At least that's what I was told many, many moons ago...

That's about as good of an explanation as any.

I trained in Shuri for a good while (enjoyed every minute of it), so I can provide some insight from that point of view. In Shuri, we never did any of the Heian / Pinan Kata, although there was still some "kata overlap" between other systems as well, just with different names. Obviously, the Taikyoku series was very similar to other systems' introductory forms. The more advanced kata were similar, though, regardless of whether different names were used or not. Naihanchi and Bassai were taught, as were others. For example, Empi Sho = Wanshu, Nan Dan Sho = Nijushiho, Kankusho = Kushanku Sho. There were also several kata that were more or less unique to that system, such as Gopei Sho, Tsue Sho, etc.

A friend of mine in the new dojo was a Goju-Shorei practitioner for a while. He said that they practiced the Pinan / Heian series, and that their array of kata were closer to what Shotokan might teach.

Hanshi Trias-Kelly teaches Shuri Ryu.

 

[twendkata71]

Well, I do know that the style that Mr. Trias taught went through many changes over the 40 years he was teaching karate in the US.
I thought that he started out teaching Shorei ryu, but later after becoming associated with Konishi (Shindo jinen ryu/ryobukai) changed the name to Shuri ryu. One of the finest karate instructors that I have ever met(John Jelks) still calls what he teaches Shorei ryu. While many of his peers, Woodrow Fairbanks,Mike Awad, and Robert Bowles teach Shuri ryu. It was always confusing to me when I was younger and I would go to tournaments and their students would be wearing the same patches,doing the same kata,but state a different style when competiting.
If I am off here please let me know. I have known many Shuri ryu and/or Shorei ryu stylist over the years. The majority were very good karate ka.

 

[Robert Lee]

To the best of my knowledge Toguchi was a direct student of Miyagi. And other then adding The two tandaku katas The training was inline with what miyagi taught. Haigishiana Who instructed miyagi Had studied shorinji temple boxing. and okinawan te Tried to instruct the shorinji temple boxing but found it not fully siuted for the students and blended it with the okinawan te. Later naha tye. wher Both Goju and shori te came to be. The gekisi katas gekiha katas kakuha katas and revised version of sanchin Miyagi put together The koryu Katas sifa, seuchin, saisan, sapi, superenpi. kurunfa,came from haigishanas teachings And I believe tensho. also Now sanchin to my understanding was earlyer practiced in a more open hand training rather then closed fist at that was what was told to me. Yamaguchi I believe Was the one handed down to head Goju from miyagi. I have built some rust on My Go ju knowledge over the years As I have drifted away from its training.

 

[Brandon Fisher]

I wish I saw Mr. Fairbanks more often I would ask him but I haven't seen him for almost 10 years. This is interesting though.

 

[twendkata71]

It is Hiagoanna Kanryo, not Haigishiana. That was Miyagi Chojun's teacher.
Also, Toguchi sensei's teacher at the Miyagi dojo was Higa Seiko,who was one of Miyagi's senior students. Yes, he did train at the Miyagi dojo,but his actual teacher most of the time was Higa. That is what I was refering to.

To the best of my knowledge Toguchi was a direct student of Miyagi. And other then adding The two tandaku katas The training was inline with what miyagi taught. Haigishiana Who instructed miyagi Had studied shorinji temple boxing. and okinawan te Tried to instruct the shorinji temple boxing but found it not fully siuted for the students and blended it with the okinawan te. Later naha tye. wher Both Goju and shori te came to be. The gekisi katas gekiha katas kakuha katas and revised version of sanchin Miyagi put together The koryu Katas sifa, seuchin, saisan, sapi, superenpi. kurunfa,came from haigishanas teachings And I believe tensho. also Now sanchin to my understanding was earlyer practiced in a more open hand training rather then closed fist at that was what was told to me. Yamaguchi I believe Was the one handed down to head Goju from miyagi. I have built some rust on My Go ju knowledge over the years As I have drifted away from its training.

 

[Robert Lee]

But he did train under miyagi also. And toguchi was also the director of Miyagis go ju ryu association and part head of go ju kai And was That was by miyagi. But yes he also trained with Higa who was a senior student of miyagi. Thats in the past now that even toguchi is gone But like I said its been several years since I was active in Go ju I liked it and trained it many years but went on to other aspects.

 

[twendkata71]

If you like training in Goju ryu , why did you stop training in it? We had a Japanese Goju ryu black belt at our dojo for a while. I liked the kata that he taught. He has since went elsewhere. Perhaps to run his own dojo. I am not sure. He was very good.

But he did train under miyagi also. And toguchi was also the director of Miyagis go ju ryu association and part head of go ju kai And was That was by miyagi. But yes he also trained with Higa who was a senior student of miyagi. Thats in the past now that even toguchi is gone But like I said its been several years since I was active in Go ju I liked it and trained it many years but went on to other aspects.

 

[pstarr]

Oh yes - I was a member of the USKA back in the day...I remember Mr. Awad and Mr. Bowles and many other excellent karateka from those thrilling days of yesteryear!

And they were very good, too!

I used to get confused between Shuri-ryu and Shorei-ryu...people who trained under Mr. Trias would often refer to their style by both names. I was told that "Shorei" was the Japanese pronunciation of "Shuri." I really don't know.

Regardless, their art was very powerful and they were ferocious fighters. Most of them tended to be rather large - I often joked that the Shuri-ryu guys should start their own pro football team.
I think they ate the smaller students...

 

[Brandon Fisher]

Rest assured Hanshi Bowles students are still tough and hard to beat in competition.