Footwork and Movement

[Kung Fu Wang]

Jow Ga has a technique like that where we stay on the ground. It's called “The Yellow Ox Rolling In The Mud” 黃 牛 捲 辦 (泥 辦). It's basically like an alligator roll. The feet and legs are like the jaws of an alligator. You violently turn which causes damage to your opponent's knees which is why you don't see these guys going full force with it.

You can apply in the reverse order too.

 

[drop bear]

Thanks for the name... But, it is still a granby roll being initiated by a crossover step on the wall.

I am not against cross stepping.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Should BJJ always consider the striking? I think they should.

Oh definitely. It's the only way to keep fighting techniques functional for self-defense. Failing to do so will cause the system to become less effective The Kung Fu Stances and Karate stances tend to be an all around stance that can address more variety. Than some of the other stances that we see out there.

If this is the only stance that a BJJ person knows then there will be issues when weapons are involved. Even BJJ practitioners who are really into the system as a self-defense system will say that many in sports, BJJ should learn more about the other things that are also in BJJ other than always trying to go to the ground. It's a similar argument that people like you and I have about point sparring in TMA

And before I get the hate posts I know that BJJ has other stances than these,

I understand that there are Sports Martial arts. But for me and how I train. It's better for me to learn everything correctly and then cut back as needed to fit into the rules of sports competition. Some people only train sports competition rules. If there is 12 levels BJJ then some only stop at 3. Same with the other TMA systems. They stop at 3 and that's all they know. It's better to learn all 12 levels and then only do 3 if the rules require it. This way the person has an understanding of 12 levels and can pass on all 12 levels instead of the 3.

This is the same thing that happened with Kung Fu. People only learned 3 levels, stopped at forms and demos, They failed when they had to do Kung Fu vs MMA (Level 6), because they only know 3 levels of their system.

Taking strikes into consideration gives understanding why some techniques are done a certain way.

 

[isshinryuronin]

I understand that there are Sports Martial arts. But for me and how I train. It's better for me to learn everything correctly and then cut back as needed to fit into the rules of sports competition. Some people only train sports competition rules.

Definitely. The advent of karate sport competition in 1930's Japan and continuing growth was responsible for a mutation of the actual art into something different, dropping techniques that did not score points or were removed by tournament rules, as well as encouraging more long distance range fighting at the expense of close in combat. You're right in that it is better to learn more and use what you need for the situation, rather than learning/training for sport and then not knowing/being proficient in what you need for other situations. Easier to take away what you don't need than to add what you don't know.

 

[JowGaWolf]

To move

- leading leg first, you can only obtain 1/2 step distance.
- back leg first, you can obtain 1 full step distance.

If you need forward momentum, to move your back leg first will give you more.

View attachment 26751

Wow.. Jow Ga has this exact same movement in our beginner from. Cross stance (cross step) and all. looks like the attack on the arm is similar too. During my first time in Jow Ga I asked how that technique works. He asked me to jab at him, I did and it felt like my arm was going to snap off at the elbow and then as that thought was going through my mind, I was struck in the chest similar to how this guys is getting bumped. This attack on the arm looks gentle compared to what I experience.. Their teacher is nice lol

 

[JowGaWolf]

Easier to take away what you don't need than to add what you don't know.

Truth. now my new signature

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

When I was in a Judo form and mentioned that sport is the path and combat is the goal. People in that forum all hated me big time.

IMO, to train how to obtain a clinch from a striking environment is more valuable.

Most of the Judo clinch all start like this. IMO, it's not realistic, and too much sport in mind. To train like this won't do me any good when fists are flying.

 

[JowGaWolf]

When I was in a Judo form and mentioned that sport is the path and combat is the goal. People in that forum all hated me big time.

It always turns out that way. People are sometimes too quick to disagree without thinking. I learned that first hand a few years ago where you made a statement and provided a picture. Disagreements came out including my own and then you showed the video and it became clear that you were right with what you were saying. Issue wasn't that I disagreed. The bigger issue was that I think think, didn't ask for clarification, didn't try to understand. Since then, and especially with your posts, I'll take my time so I can think about what you say and about the techniques you are talking about.

I try to remind myself, that often times there isn't one way but many and that techniques and how we understand them is often just one way.

 

[drop bear]

In regards to BJJ and striking. They traditionally just sort of closed the distance and clinched.

Which honestly worked well enough untill the other guy learned jujitsu and started countering this kind of thing.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

In regards to BJJ and striking. They traditionally just sort of closed the distance and clinched.

Which honestly worked well enough untill the other guy learned jujitsu and started countering this kind of thing.

IMO, the crazy monkey approach is too conservative. You put yourself in 100% defense mode.

I prefer to use the double circular arms approach instead. It's more like to use the anti-missile system to shoot down enemy attacking missile.

In order to obtain a clinch during the fists flying situation, I believe the 1st step is to train how to use hook punch to deal with jab or cross. When you are not afraid of your opponent's jab or cross, you can start to obtain your clinch.

Of course to use rhino guard to deal with hook punches can be another approach.

 

[JowGaWolf]

In regards to BJJ and striking. They traditionally just sort of closed the distance and clinched.

Which honestly worked well enough untill the other guy learned jujitsu and started countering this kind of thing.

I don't know about BJJ but I think most martial art systems have a striking, grappling, and weapon component. The older the system the more likly all three would be a part of the system. The japanese systems have a lot of things that blend really well together with other japanese systems.

 

[_Simon_]

Will you call this "footwork"?

http://img.izismile.com/img/img6/20131007/1000/daily_gifdump_470_15.gif

YES. THANK YOU!

I can't believe I didn't think about reposting this.... 🤣

 

[isshinryuronin]

I think most martial art systems have a striking, grappling, and weapon component. The older the system the more likly all three would be a part of the system.

This is true of many CMA. For karate, it depends on the era you're talking about. From the beginning, having evolved from CMA, Okinawan karate had striking and grappling (mostly grabbing and twisting, take downs, but a few throws too). For some reason, the Okinawans who studied in China (while they may have learned Chinese weapons) did not appear to teach them.) Let's call this time period 1800's.

Now, many karate experts in this time period knew weapons - kobudo, tools of the warrior - Samurai sword, staff, sai and spear mostly, but I have not seen where they were part of the karate curriculum. It seems that they were a separate, parallel, area of study, independent of the karate system. Some non-karate people like farmers practiced weapons such as eku (row boat oar), staff, nunchaku and tonfa (all simple wooden implements) and kama (sickle) for self-protection, though to what extent I don't know.

By 1900, a new era emerged. Okinawa was now firmly under Japanese control and law enforcement. Traditional weapons were really not needed too much by anyone on the Ryukyu islands, so their usage (and knowledge of) declined. Noting this atrophy of Okinawan weaponry, Taira Shinken began to accumulate the techniques and kata of both the warrior and peasant class (sometimes disguised as folk dances).

A contemporary and student of several karate masters in the first half of the 20th century, Taira shared his knowledge with them, or learned from them. In this way, karate got the last part of the triad you referred to. So by 1950, kobudo became entwined as part of many Okinawan karate styles and the tradition was preserved and passed on. (The Samurai sword remained a separate study, being essentially a Japanese art.) Some dojos do not teach any weapons.

Kobudo also still exists as a separate discipline, outside of Karate, and there are about 3 main styles specializing in traditional weapons. Some esoteric weapons may be taught there that karate dojo don't get into. A number of karate practitioners also study in one of these specialized styles, wanting to delve further into weapons than karate dojo offer.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The wheeling step is commonly used in the TMA. You move yourself to be out of your opponent's attacking path and lead your opponent into the emptiness.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I think most martial art systems have a striking, grappling, and weapon component. The older the system the more likly all three would be a part of the system.

This is why TMA doesn't use boxing guard. When kicking is involved, you have more than your head to worry about.

 

[Alan0354]

I just saw this thread, to me, footwork is about the most important thing. Just watch the UFC fights, it's everything. I am just starting to learn stick fight, but I had 3 years of Tae Kwon Do training and wing Chung for a short while. No school is open in my area, so I resort to watching youtube for sticks. I did learn a lot to twirling and those. BUT then I watch youtube on real stick fight, all out fights, it's amazing the stick swingings are so simple, just basic 45deg swing down from left or right, some low swings to the legs. It's all about the amazing footwork how to shoot in for the attack and how to back off straight back, to left of to right when being charged and attacked.

I know people keep saying youtube is not good, but I find it useful.........more in what NOT to do than to learn what to do.

From experience, footwork is everything in bare knuckle fighting, and so far, it's everything in stick fighting. Just add the basic swing of the stick to the footwork, not the other way around.

JMHO

 

[Shatteredzen]

So we can agree on the importance of footwork and movement it appears. What is a good amount of time we should be devoting to it? I don't see footwork and movement being trained nearly enough in my opinion, does anyone have any drills or exercises they use consistently in training? I like shadowboxing and heavy bag work for teaching/drilling footwork, spacing, timing, etc, does anyone else have any additions?

 

[Alan0354]

I am not an expert, I watch youtube on MMA footwork, verify with the real UFC fight and use it as the starting point, then integrate hands and kicks into it. It is my opinion the UFC MMA footwork is the best base on result.

This is one I watch:

I assume you are very experience, so you just integrate what you have into the footwork. Watch UFC fights and see how they do it. You'll quickly see what works and what doesn't. I don't trust any particular source, just keep watching and experimenting.



As for stick fight, this is one video I watch:

I really like the footwork. The stick part is very simple. I quit practicing all the fancy twirling after watching this and some other stick fight.