Fighting in schools

Kickboxer101

Kickboxer101

Master Black Belt
So my younger cousin who's 12 got into a fight at school the other day he was getting picked on by this kid in his class and the kid was pushing him and slapping him and threatening him.he then said he was going to smash his face I so my cousin punched him in the face and they got into a fight and got separated. But my cousin got in trouble because he threw the first /punch/ even though the other kid was slapping him and pushing him it was only the punch that they took notice about which to me is ridiculous. Also the fact he threatened him with physical violence as well.

I mean if the other guy was the other side of the room and yelled at him he was going to smash him I'm not saying it'd be right for him to run across the room and start beating him up but when someone's in your face being aggressive then says that I think that gives you a right to attack first because they're in close proximity in an aggressive situation and threatening violence.

I think with schools they just look at it image wise they see someone throw a punch automatically they're the one to blame but pushing and slaps that's agressive and could be counted as assault.
 
This is where reputation will help you or sink you. The better your reputation is the less likely the student will get in trouble. It's always important to have teachers think highly of you (general ). Your cousin should have first walked away and tell a teacher. This is the first step in building a case against the bully. If the teacher can stop the behavior then great. If not, then at least a teacher is aware of the problem. For me I try to report an issue at least 2 times to show that there is a pattern of me getting bullied. By the 3rd incident I'm all ready to fight knowing that I have a history of being assaulted by a bully.

Keep in mind that this is a best case scenario for fighting in school settings that will land you in the least amount of trouble.

Sometimes life just sucks even when you are in the right. The good news is that legal rights weigh in more these days. I don't know where you are but in the U.S. charges could have been pressed the moment the boy slapped your cousin. A call to the police would have been justified
 
JowGaWolf said:
This is where reputation will help you or sink you. The better your reputation is the less likely the student will get in trouble. It's always important to have teachers think highly of you (general ). Your cousin should have first walked away and tell a teacher. This is the first step in building a case against the bully. If the teacher can stop the behavior then great. If not, then at least a teacher is aware of the problem. For me I try to report an issue at least 2 times to show that there is a pattern of me getting bullied. By the 3rd incident I'm all ready to fight knowing that I have a history of being assaulted by a bully.

Keep in mind that this is a best case scenario for fighting in school settings that will land you in the least amount of trouble.

Sometimes life just sucks even when you are in the right. The good news is that legal rights weigh in more these days. I don't know where you are but in the U.S. charges could have been pressed the moment the boy slapped your cousin. A call to the police would have been justified
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That's the point he was pushed against a wall and was pretty much pinned so he couldn't walk away that was my point about aggressive intention and he never fights in school he does boxing a bit but doesn't Compete and he never gets in fights. Yeah maybe but that's the fight most people probably won't call the police for school fights as it's seen as different to a fight in the street if that wasnt the case then surely teachers could call the police for assault the same way they do if someone's dealing drugs at school
 
Kickboxer101 said:
So my younger cousin who's 12 got into a fight at school the other day he was getting picked on by this kid in his class and the kid was pushing him and slapping him and threatening him.he then said he was going to smash his face I so my cousin punched him in the face and they got into a fight and got separated. But my cousin got in trouble because he threw the first /punch/ even though the other kid was slapping him and pushing him it was only the punch that they took notice about which to me is ridiculous.
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Nope. Slapping is assault. He can claim self defense and press charges.

Also the fact he threatened him with physical violence as well.
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"Threatened?" The threat was made good by physical assault - the slapping.

I think with schools they just look at it image wise they see someone throw a punch automatically they're the one to blame but pushing and slaps that's agressive and could be counted as assault.
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Oh, he'll still get kicked out anyway. The only acceptable behavior now is to curl up in a fetal position and cry. Any sort of fighting, whether or not it is fighting back, is grounds for punishment. He'll just have to suck that up. Zero Tolerance ("Zero Thought") policies have that effect.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 
Kickboxer101 said:
That's the point he was pushed against a wall and was pretty much pinned so he couldn't walk away that was my point about aggressive intention and he never fights in school he does boxing a bit but doesn't Compete and he never gets in fights. Yeah maybe but that's the fight most people probably won't call the police for school fights as it's seen as different to a fight in the street if that wasnt the case then surely teachers could call the police for assault the same way they do if someone's dealing drugs at school
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Tell him to press charges and sue the school for not protecting him.

Yes, I'm serious. Once a lawyer gets in on it, even if the case sucks, schools will often decide that they can use discretion after all.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 
Kickboxer101 said:
That's the point he was pushed against a wall and was pretty much pinned so he couldn't walk away that was my point about aggressive intention and he never fights in school he does boxing a bit but doesn't Compete and he never gets in fights. Yeah maybe but that's the fight most people probably won't call the police for school fights as it's seen as different to a fight in the street if that wasnt the case then surely teachers could call the police for assault the same way they do if someone's dealing drugs at school
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How reliable is he as a reporter (in the eyes of the teachers at the school, not your own)? And did anyone witness this? If he was pinned that much and there's evidence to support that, he can definitely take action about it.
 
kempodisciple said:
How reliable is he as a reporter (in the eyes of the teachers at the school, not your own)? And did anyone witness this? If he was pinned that much and there's evidence to support that, he can definitely take action about it.
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If there aren't any witnesses/videotape/evidence, and either the other guy doesn't get in trouble much or he gets in trouble a lot, not really much you can do.
 
Sometimes it boils down to get in temporary trouble with the school vs continuing harassment from student. After all of this has happened I wonder if the boy will continue to slap your cousin or pick on your cousin. If your cousin isn't harassed any more by this student then at least it solved that problem. If your cousin is less likely to be harassed by other bullies then that's even better, then he can focus on school without someone trying to pick on him.

I know times are different, but when I was a kid, fewer kids were willing to pick on me once they knew I was willing to fight back. Lets face it, no one likes to get punched in the face when all you want to do is pick on someone
 
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I'm a school teacher. The rules in school are different than out of school. They definitely shouldn't be, but unfortunately that's how it is.

Every state's laws are different, every school district will handle it differently, and every principal within the individual school somehow handles it differently.

I've seen kids throw the first punch that was completely justified in self defense and still get suspended for it. I was on very good terms with one student and his parents who this happened to. All I could tell him and his parents is sometimes you get punished for doing the right thing. After talking to the parents and explaining what actually happened (off the record), the parents viewed it as an unscheduled week's vacation. Justifiably so.

In all fairness to school administration, they need to maintain order and set a firm example. Very, vary rarely does a kid act purely out of self defense in school fights. Students very rarely exhaust all options before fighting. There are students who defend themselves appropriately every day and you hear tons of justified SD stories where a kid got suspended anyway. But percentage-wise, it's quite rare.

In order to get out of any punishment for fighting in school, it has to be on camera or in front of a staff member where the student was clearly trying to walk away and basically got hit from behind. In 6 years, I've seen one instance where a kid was found justified in fighting and I'm quite sure I won't see it again (and hopefully in this particular regard)... A kid was walking down the hallway and a girl was hiding around a corner her and waiting to walk by. The "victim" beat up the other kid pretty good without going overboard. Fortunately the incident was on video, and the "victim" (for lack of a better word) didn't receive any punishment other than sitting in in-school suspension for a period or two until the principal sorted out what was actually happening.

Sucks that your brother got suspended for doing the right thing. Most likely it won't happen again. Bullies would rather pick on someone who won't fight back any day. If it were my kid, I'd have no problem with what he did.
 
Unless it's caught on cctv or there's very reliable witnesses ie adults ( which is always going to be unlikely given what bullies are) there is nothing that can be done because it's one child's word against another's.
It's very hard for teachers as it is the police to tell what happened when it's children fighting and there's no proof, other children's accounts will be muddled to say the least for a number of reasons.
The OP is obviously taking his cousin's side and believing every word because he's family which is a natural thing to do but others have to take a neutral, disinterested look and perhaps things aren't always what they seem which makes it very difficult to determine what happened. The question is how to be fair when you don't know what happened.
 
I wish schools would teach traditional martial arts as part of their health curriculum. I think it would help reduce the number of fights and reduce incidents of bullying. Plus punching and kicking pads does wonders for releasing stress. Schools don't have programs that help manage aggression and I think that's where they go wrong.
 
JowGaWolf said:
I wish schools would teach traditional martial arts as part of their health curriculum. I think it would help reduce the number of fights and reduce incidents of bullying. Plus punching and kicking pads does wonders for releasing stress. Schools don't have programs that help manage aggression and I think that's where they go wrong.
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Wishful thinking. There's plenty of bullies in martial arts, many are instructors. Bullying is something that needs to be tackled properly, looking at bullying in all walks and parts of life. Acceptance of differences would be a start, politicians and rabble rousing has a lot to answer for. All physical exercise does wonders for relieving stress, making anything compulsory like martial arts, games etc causes more stress than it relieves.
Why should schools have programmes for managing aggression? Are you thinking that children are so naturally aggressive that they need to be tamed? How about bringing them up decently instead as well rounded individuals with good role models instead. When bad behaviour by public figures is rewarded you will have children who think it's fine to bully and barge their way through life.
 
JR 137 said:
I'm a school teacher. The rules in school are different than out of school. They definitely shouldn't be, but unfortunately that's how it is.

Every state's laws are different, every school district will handle it differently, and every principal within the individual school somehow handles it differently.

I've seen kids throw the first punch that was completely justified in self defense and still get suspended for it. I was on very good terms with one student and his parents who this happened to. All I could tell him and his parents is sometimes you get punished for doing the right thing. After talking to the parents and explaining what actually happened (off the record), the parents viewed it as an unscheduled week's vacation. Justifiably so.

In all fairness to school administration, they need to maintain order and set a firm example. Very, vary rarely does a kid act purely out of self defense in school fights. Students very rarely exhaust all options before fighting. There are students who defend themselves appropriately every day and you hear tons of justified SD stories where a kid got suspended anyway. But percentage-wise, it's quite rare.

In order to get out of any punishment for fighting in school, it has to be on camera or in front of a staff member where the student was clearly trying to walk away and basically got hit from behind. In 6 years, I've seen one instance where a kid was found justified in fighting and I'm quite sure I won't see it again (and hopefully in this particular regard)... A kid was walking down the hallway and a girl was hiding around a corner her and waiting to walk by. The "victim" beat up the other kid pretty good without going overboard. Fortunately the incident was on video, and the "victim" (for lack of a better word) didn't receive any punishment other than sitting in in-school suspension for a period or two until the principal sorted out what was actually happening.

Sucks that your brother got suspended for doing the right thing. Most likely it won't happen again. Bullies would rather pick on someone who won't fight back any day. If it were my kid, I'd have no problem with what he did.
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Thanks for your input. I have often been critical of teachers over the last few years. But I will also be the first to admit we have taken away many of their tools. Corporately we don't want kids to be punished corporally. Yet we demand that teachers keep peace in the classroom and the school yard. Many parents have bought into the idea that 'Johnny' should never be punished lest he feel stifled. But how does a child learn the boundaries? Or the difference in severity of different indiscretions?

I salute you JR 137. But I sure don't envy you.

EDIT: I am speaking of the USA, as I presume most other poster are. I can't account for other countries' procedures.
 
lklawson said:
"Therapeutic Martial Arts" as part of the health and exercise curriculum does exist in some schools.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
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After I put the post I took a look saw a couple of schools that had martial arts but most were part of an after school component like sports. There was one school that had a martial arts class during normal school hours and they stated that those who took the class had a reduction in aggressive behavior compared to those who did not take the class. I should have bookmarked that page. I was hoping to find more statistics but there's not much on it in terms of school having martial arts programs.
 
JowGaWolf said:
After I put the post I took a look saw a couple of schools that had martial arts but most were part of an after school component like sports. There was one school that had a martial arts class during normal school hours and they stated that those who took the class had a reduction in aggressive behavior compared to those who did not take the class. I should have bookmarked that page. I was hoping to find more statistics but there's not much on it in terms of school having martial arts programs.
Click to expand...
Public Schools Partnering with Martial Arts | Facebook
Martial Arts | Summit Academy Schools

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 
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