extendable batons

[Flatlander]

You know, the metal ones with the lead in the end that the police use. Anyone play with these? Anyone know where I, a Canadian citizen, could procure one? I really want to try one out.

 

[shesulsa]

Well, I am not a Canadian citizen, so, no, unless you order through a catalog. Buy a good quality one that you manually extend.

Once you get one, PM me and I'll go over the retraction technique my teacher shows LEOs. I'm certified in EB I, BTW.

 

[Flatlander]

Buy a good quality one that you manually extend.

Do you mean as opposed to one that you would "whip" open? Why? Can you be more specific?
Thanks!

 

[Rob Broad]

Telescopic Batons or ASP's are illegal in Canada because tehy are a weapon that can either be open by centripidal force or by a spring lock mechanism. The only way a citizen can own one is to take a course on teaching the weapon and start training poice officers.

 

[Flatlander]

Yes, I know they're illegal for civilians, but there must be a way.....

 

[shesulsa]

Do you mean as opposed to one that you would "whip" open? Why? Can you be more specific?
Thanks!

No, you DO want the kind that you have to "whip open" as opposed to the spring loaded ones. Springs wear and it's more a pain in the butt than anything else. Well, if you have the opportunity, try both. The spring action seems really neat and and a time-saver...until it fails to either extend fully or collapses exactly when you don't need it to.

It's still an extension of your body and metal CBs hurt WAY more than escrimas.

An LEO would aim for center of mass with the tip. Next step up from CB is firearm. In Washington state, they recently updated the use to approve neutralization of the offending appendage.

When you collapse the baton, do it like an LEO - step back with your dominant foot and kneel on one knee, keeping your head up - DON'T BEND OVER. Reverse-grip the weapon and collapse on pavement with a downward hammerfist type motion, then return to standing.

They're cool little ditties.

 

[shesulsa]

Yes, I know they're illegal for civilians, but there must be a way.....

I'm a civilian, but I'm certified in CB, so I carry one in my MA bag - don't wear it, though. I almost lost it to the airport security when they searched my bag. I told them it was a gift for someone. Interesting, because they stopped me in PDX, but not LAX.

Anyway, if you have a MA teacher or know one who trains LEOs, perhaps he can certify you in CB-I and CB-II so you can train LEOs also. Then, you have a reason to have one with you - you teach LEOs CB.

 

[Guro Harold]

The cool thing about FMA and ASP/EB's is that most of the major striking styles can be used to deploy the ASP/EBs.

The basic striking styles also give you a base for execution which of course must be tempered with understanding of the potential the criminal and civil law implications.

Some of the cane jointlock manipulations and cane releases from a deployed and non-deployed can also be used and the non-deployed EB can reuse kubaton applications and gunting techiques.

Cool stuff.

Palusut

 

[DoxN4cer]

I'm a civilian, but I'm certified in CB, so I carry one in my MA bag - don't wear it, though. I almost lost it to the airport security when they searched my bag. I told them it was a gift for someone. Interesting, because they stopped me in PDX, but not LAX.

Anyway, if you have a MA teacher or know one who trains LEOs, perhaps he can certify you in CB-I and CB-II so you can train LEOs also. Then, you have a reason to have one with you - you teach LEOs CB.

Caveat emptor:

What state are you in?

Certified how and by whom? That is one question that a LEO might ask you. Did you receive certifcation ther the P.O.S.T. board in your state? You may want to research your State and local laws concerning carry and concealment of such weapons. In many states carry of collapsible batons is highly restricted and can land you in the clink on concealed weapon charges.

Many LEO supply companies (such as GAULS) throughout the country won't sell such items to customers without a FAX or PDF of your credentials. Also, the major manufacturers (ASP and Monodnak) normally only allow LEO and (some specialized) security personnel to attend their training programs.

Please be further advised that should you dicide to carry one and end up using it in a self defense situation, you might be the one facing criminal charges. Civil charges may follow for you as well as the person who sold the item to you and the instructor who taught you how to use it.

Forewarned is forearmed.

Tim Kashino

 

[tshadowchaser]

They are great for defence but unfortunatly the are considered a flail by the goverment of the USA and are most likely against federal law

 

[Phil Elmore]

No, there is no federal law governing extending batons. This is governed on a state by state basis.

 

[dearnis.com]

The fact that you teach, ,even if you are certified to teach a LEO curriculum, does not also give you a CCW permit. As Phil noted, the laws are on a state by state (and locality by locality) basis.

 

[shesulsa]

I should state I am not suggesting (I understand it reads that way) that anyone carry any weapon under false pretenses or illegally. Do understand the legal ramifications of carriage and use of any weapon you carry. Carry your certification with you whenever you have the weapon with you (duh).

As for how I was certified, I attended a certification training class in EB-I by an EB certified instructor whose identity is none of your business, and I live in Washington State.

Since, Flatlander lives in *AHEM* Canada, could you, Sharp Phil, or any other posters on this thread, give him advice on the specific legalities?

Flatlander, we've exchanged enough previously that I assume you recognize the intent of my post as not being that of condoning illegal carriage. I do not know what the Canadian laws are as they specifically relate to civilian carriage or ownership. Talk to your instructors about this...or...make your own decision, I guess.

As I posted previously, try to train with someone who trains and can legally certify LEOs. Who does this in Canada? Will they train you too? Do you have any interest in helping train LEOs?

 

[Rob Broad]

The easiest way to get certification in Canda is to have Police officers as students, and get them to get permission to take you to any official seminars in the use of ASP. From there you can probably work out how to be a certified teacher with the instructor of the course. If they know that you are serious about woring with Law Enforcement they will help withthe process.

The other way is to get a police officer as a student and have them bring theirs to class, or giv ethem teh money to purchase you one to train them with.

I should state I am not suggesting (I understand it reads that way) that anyone carry any weapon under false pretenses or illegally. Do understand the legal ramifications of carriage and use of any weapon you carry. Carry your certification with you whenever you have the weapon with you (duh).

As for how I was certified, I attended a certification training class in EB-I by an EB certified instructor whose identity is none of your business, and I live in Washington State.

Since, Flatlander lives in *AHEM* Canada, could you, Sharp Phil, or any other posters on this thread, give him advice on the specific legalities?

Flatlander, we've exchanged enough previously that I assume you recognize the intent of my post as not being that of condoning illegal carriage. I do not know what the Canadian laws are as they specifically relate to civilian carriage or ownership. Talk to your instructors about this...or...make your own decision, I guess.

As I posted previously, try to train with someone who trains and can legally certify LEOs. Who does this in Canada? Will they train you too? Do you have any interest in helping train LEOs?

 

[K Williams]

The good companies that make collapsible batons are ASP( http://www.asp-net.com ) and Monadnock( http://www.batons.com ). Try to find a company in the US that ships to Canada. Of course, there's alway the possibility of the getting confiscated at Customs, and losing the money you spent on it...maybe even getting arrested?

 

[Flatlander]

Good lord, they are much more expensive than I thought. Maybe I'm better off just finding a nice branch or something....

 

[Mark Weiser]

When I was in LE the only ones allowed to carry expandable batons were detectives or those that had to wear civies.

We had holsters that fit under the arm or on the belt for a fast access. Anyway the sound and the click when drawn is enough to get someones attention lol.

I remember one time when during a domestic dispute the only unit to arrive was a pair of detectives (Sedgwick County aka Wichita). The group of people were trying to crowd the scene trying to take a peek that was going on.

The two Detectives had to get the point across and both of them said "Everyone please leave the immeadate area!" Meanwhile they drew their Asp and flicked them open. The Crowd stopped and looked at the weapons and decided it was in their own best interest to leave.

The two detectives talked about it to us at the academy. They said there was no way they could have held the crowd back but the Bluff worked lol. I love it!!!

 

[K Williams]

Good lord, they are much more expensive than I thought. Maybe I'm better off just finding a nice branch or something....

Those are MSRP prices. Try online companies for cheaper prices...here's one.

http://www.1sks.com/store/asp-batons.html

The lightweight models have been known to bend...

 

[Guro Harold]

Hi Flatlander,

If you want to start with a basic one, centuryfitness has one for about $20.00 USD. Supposedly they ship internationally.

http://www.centuryfitness.com/webap...-1&parent_category_rn=13661&crumb=13501-13524

Palusut

 

[K Williams]

Shipping to Canada is $20! :xtrmshock Then again, I guess that's not a lot considering it could be going to anywhere in Canada... :idunno: