draft?

[bushidomartialarts]

so if we invade iran, which many people seem to think isn't far off, the us armed forces are going to be spread a mite thin.

what are the chances of another draft, do y'all think? and what would you do if one came?

i'm 33, so i'd be above age. but a part of me feels like i should volunteer if they start drafting folk. i'm fairly skilled and pretty tough and not the dumbest kid on the block -- seems like i'd be more likely to make it through than some 18 year old fresh out of high school. maybe i could save a kid by taking his place...

'course, another part of me says a draft means it's time to expatriate: this wouldn't be the america i've spent my life being proud of. my tax money and contribution to society should go elsewhere.

i'm really of two minds here. anybody else out there thinking about this?

 

[Hand Sword]

If it became truly needed, I believe a draft would occur. There has been talk about it around congresss already. Iran is probably going to be a problem in the near future, and since we have the military over there already, they will move across the border. So far, the iran situation still looks like a couple of years off. Hopefully, Iraq will be stable enough by then.

 

[Blindside]

A draft will never happen for an Iran invasion, whatever party institutes the draft for an unpopular war will be voted out by the next election, and they know it.

We'll do the same thing we've done so many times before, try to control the situation with air strikes. Which will fail.

 

[Swordlady]

I don't know if this is true or not, but I heard that President Bush tried enacting the draft twice - and it got shot down by Congress both times.

Bush said in the news quite recently that the American troops will probably stay in Iraq til at least 2009. That's already stretching the troops pretty thin. With this possible invasion of Iran...yeah, I could see Bush trying to enact another draft. And if I'm not mistaken, I think that people can volunteer for military service as opposed to being drafted. I'm pretty sure they would take you, though keep in mind that you'll probably get bossed around by NCOs and lieutenants at least ten years your junior.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

For any cause I believed in, I'd join.
I wouldn't to support an invasion of Iran.

 

[Carol]

I HIGHLY doubt that there will be a draft.

Last year I seriously considered joining the US Naval Reserves as a part-time officer. I got the pros and cons from a retired Navy officer, I called a recruiter and set up an interview. I met the basic requirements. I was a US Citizen, of proper age. I have no dependents.

Career questions. I have a degree. My GPA wasn't great, but my school's academic standards were tough enough so my barely squeeking by wasn't terrible.. I don't think the ASVAB would be a problem. I mentioned my years of engineering experience and the fact that I know the inner workings of the telephone network in well over 100 nations, including most of the Middle East/Asia.

I got asked questions about how many parking tickets I've had, whether I have a criminal record, and how many sex partners I have. I think I heard the recruiter heave a sigh of relief when I admitted how single I really was.

I never joined. Disqualified, medical. The disappointment in my recruiter's voice was clarion. I can excel in a high pressure corporate job, but I can't serve my country.

The military has high standards. If they are turning down people like me in a time of war, I honestly cannot see them removing their benchmark altogether and operating with a cattle call of random young men.

 

[mrhnau]

I don't know if this is true or not, but I heard that President Bush tried enacting the draft twice - and it got shot down by Congress both times.

sources please? and not conspiracynut.com or some other out there news source I perhaps missed it.. I heard about some senators tossing it up there just to draw attention to it, but everytime I've heard it mentioned to Bush he has shot it down. I think that would have gotten my attention.

For any cause I believed in, I'd join.
I wouldn't to support an invasion of Iran.

Bob, no offence, but what would make a cause worthy? What would you believe in?

I'm not for invading Iran, I think things can workout if the Iran leader wants it to... keeping a host of inspectors to insure no weapons work is going on would be sufficient for me. I'd prefer the UN "peacekeepers" to be augmented with a few US inspectors, considering the "oil for food" fiasco and the involvement of France and Russia...

 

[SFC JeffJ]

Our military leaders do not want a draft. They don't want anyone serving in the armed forces that don't want to be there. A volunteer force is much better motivated.

It's just such a huge violation of the rights of the individual, I don't think it should have been enacted at any time in U.S. history. The war in Viet Nam probably wouldn't have happened if we didn't have a draft.

I've heard some Dem Congressman and Senators saying we should have a draft because our armed forces are composed mainly of people that come from the lower middle to lower class. Interesting argument, but that usually is the case even with a draft in place. Middle and upper class kids have a greater chance to continue their education, thus, college deferments.

Just some thoughts on the matter,

Jeff

 

[Carol]

The two attempts to reinstate the draft that I know of have both come from Rep. Charles Rangel (D-NY)

​

RANGEL REINTRODUCES DRAFT BILL

WASHINGTON - Lawmaker Says Volunteer Military May be Overwhelmed by Military Challenges in Iran, North Korea and Syria requiring more troops who will have to be drafted
Congressman Charles Rangel today introduced new legislation to reinstate the military draft that will include draftees up to 42 years of age.

Bill to Restore the Draft Is Defeated in the House

[SIZE=-1]By CARL HULSE[/SIZE]

Published: October 6, 2004

ASHINGTON, Oct. 5 - Trying to quiet fears of a return of the draft, the House Republican leadership engaged in a hasty call-up of its own on Tuesday. The Republicans brought to the floor a Democratic-sponsored proposal to reinstate mandatory military service and presided over its overwhelming defeat on a vote of 402 to 2.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/06/politics/06draft.html?ex=1254715200&en=805cf387f4178dc9&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland

 

[Lisa]

Being a Canadian and not knowing about drafts, what are the parameters for a draft. When can a President put a draft in effect and whom does it affect (i.e. age groups, etc) What can you be disqualified for or what can get you excused?

 

[mrhnau]

The two attempts to reinstate the draft that I know of have both come from Rep. Charles Rangel (D-NY)

Thanks Carol. Note from the article he voted against his own bill.

"It is a prostitution of the legislative process to take a serious issue and use it for political purposes on the eve of the election just to say they are against the draft," said Representative Charles B. Rangel, Democrat of New York, the author of the bill, who ended up voting against it.

Then what was he doing? This bill was nothing but politics.

edit: note the two people voting for it were democrats LOL

 

[mrhnau]

Being a Canadian and not knowing about drafts, what are the parameters for a draft. When can a President put a draft in effect and whom does it affect (i.e. age groups, etc) What can you be disqualified for or what can get you excused?

if I recall correctly (please correct if I'm wrong), guys can be drafted between age of 18-25. Generally its instated during times of war when volunteers are not sufficient for military needs. Times like Viet Nam, a very unpopular war, called for the draft. Its not used very often, normally we have enough people. You can get excused in certain circumstances like school, medical excuse, sometimes for family reasons.

I'm sure the implementation in the future would be different, but in Viet Nam I think it was based on your social security number/birthdays. Was not around at that time so a bit fuzzy on details.

Basically the threat of a draft is to instill fear based on the Viet Nam experience. Fear tactic. Dems are desperate to draw an analogy to Viet Nam.

 

[rutherford]

If there was a draft, I would volunteer. I expect I would be rejected from service.

 

[Makalakumu]

I don't think we'll see war with Iran unless there is a false flag operation or Iran takes offensive action against us.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Bob, no offence, but what would make a cause worthy? What would you believe in?

Hard question. Something based on the ideals I believe this country was founded in. Not a war of expansion, of convenience, for political or economic gain. I'd fight for friends, for family, for my home. Hard to be more specific as there are no causes currently going on that I am aware of that I would risk my life over. I certainly wouldn't risk it because the emperor and his warmongering cronies seek to deflect attention by attacking yet another country illegally, in complete departure from what I believe are the foundations of this nation.

Now, if Iran or any other nation starts landing troops on the Jersey shore, I'll either join or form a group of partisans to defend Buffalo....just in case Vinnie and the Boyz don't take em out first.

 

[mrhnau]

Hard question. Something based on the ideals I believe this country was founded in. Not a war of expansion, of convenience, for political or economic gain. I'd fight for friends, for family, for my home. Hard to be more specific as there are no causes currently going on that I am aware of that I would risk my life over. I certainly wouldn't risk it because the emperor and his warmongering cronies seek to deflect attention by attacking yet another country illegally, in complete departure from what I believe are the foundations of this nation.

genocide in africa? destruction of ethnic lands/homes in iraq (well, was happening)? genocide in bosnia (past)? 9/11? taliban? hunting for Al Quida? terror bombings around the world? Terrorist getting their hands on serious WMD's, holding the world hostage?

friends, family and home are great things to fight for, I must agree... however, I had no friends family or home at stake in WW2, or WW1 for that matter... Is isolationism the answer? thinking that no foreign war is valid, and we always have alternative plans in mind? (oil, money, gold, etc)...

dang, I've almost convinced myself to go sign up LOL

Now, if Iran or any other nation starts landing troops on the Jersey shore, I'll either join or form a group of partisans to defend Buffalo....just in case Vinnie and the Boyz don't take em out first.

now what if some group starts flying planes into new york skyscrapers? thats pretty close to jersey. what if Iran tosses a few nukes into NY, LA or DC? Still not an invasion, but same effect... millions dead, economy disrupted and at least some element of fear instilled.

How many more terrorist attacks would it take to convince you that what we are doing/have done is just? If we did not go on the offensive, how many more attacks would have been launched? its a hard metric to gauge I must admit, but it seems terrorist are targeting easier targets (read foreign) these days... I think another attack is inevitable. I'd not be suprised to see it coincide with a voting occassion, hoping to sway decisions...

Personally, i'd hate to see a draft, I think thats a very bad idea... the public does not seem to have the same fervor over this cause as in ww2, when we sent so many men w/out a draft. I think this can still be worked out diplomatically and the draft talk is just to instill fear and get air time on TV/radio.

 

[Carol]

if I recall correctly (please correct if I'm wrong), guys can be drafted between age of 18-25. Generally its instated during times of war when volunteers are not sufficient for military needs. Times like Viet Nam, a very unpopular war, called for the draft. Its not used very often, normally we have enough people. You can get excused in certain circumstances like school, medical excuse, sometimes for family reasons.

All male citizens and most male aliens and dual-nationals between 18-25 must register for the Selective Service, aka the draft. Men are chosen by lottery.

To implement Selective Service takes an act of Congress.

A man who wishes to object to his service may bring his objection up with a local board, who decides each case. The draft board is made up of citizen volunteers who (among other requirements) never have served in the military or law enforcement.

http://www.sss.gov/FSlocal.htm

 

[Bob Hubbard]

genocide in africa? destruction of ethnic lands/homes in iraq (well, was happening)? genocide in bosnia (past)? 9/11? taliban? hunting for Al Quida? terror bombings around the world? Terrorist getting their hands on serious WMD's, holding the world hostage?

friends, family and home are great things to fight for, I must agree... however, I had no friends family or home at stake in WW2, or WW1 for that matter... Is isolationism the answer? thinking that no foreign war is valid, and we always have alternative plans in mind? (oil, money, gold, etc)...

dang, I've almost convinced myself to go sign up LOL



now what if some group starts flying planes into new york skyscrapers? thats pretty close to jersey. what if Iran tosses a few nukes into NY, LA or DC? Still not an invasion, but same effect... millions dead, economy disrupted and at least some element of fear instilled.

How many more terrorist attacks would it take to convince you that what we are doing/have done is just? If we did not go on the offensive, how many more attacks would have been launched? its a hard metric to gauge I must admit, but it seems terrorist are targeting easier targets (read foreign) these days... I think another attack is inevitable. I'd not be suprised to see it coincide with a voting occassion, hoping to sway decisions...

Personally, i'd hate to see a draft, I think thats a very bad idea... the public does not seem to have the same fervor over this cause as in ww2, when we sent so many men w/out a draft. I think this can still be worked out diplomatically and the draft talk is just to instill fear and get air time on TV/radio.

WW2 was different. We were attacked. Our allies were attacked. The enemy was tangible and the goals specific. The empires current plan of warmongering is not specific, has no set end game. It's simply a continued distraction from a lack of any real focus.

I almost did enlist after 9/11. Going after Osama, is a cause worth pursuing IMO. But not the illegal actions in Iraq, the anticipated nuclear confrontation in Iran, etc. I am not willing to put my life on the line to defend a despotic and corrupt regime, that engages in illegal actions, that supports torture, the illegal detainment of it's people, or that constantly seeks to ignore or overwrite the principles that it was founded upon. As to the immoral and despotic governments elsewhere...maybe they should do their own revolutions without the US sending in it's men and women to die and be maimed, just so McDonalds and Gucci can have another market to play in.

 

[Stan]

I hear a lot of talk about how overstretched our military is, and at the same time how it remains far and away better and more capable than the next nearest competitors. And that we spend more on it per year than the rest of the world combined. Does someone with some military knowledge know the true story? What is our military's capability to fight extended, additional or expanded ground wars right now?

What would we do if Iran sent troops into Iraq? Or if North Korea invaded the South? What is the threshold where a draft becomes necessary? I might believe (or might not) that the US can sustain current operations in Iraq and Afghanistan for a good long time without a draft, considering the extremely low number of casualties. But what is our battle readiness beyond those theaters?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

If Iran or N Korea, etc invaded one of our allies, that's a different situation than us launching the attack. As to low casualty numbers, the KIA are low. Wounded count is in the tens of thousands, with a fair number of those being crippled and no longer combat effective.