Dojo operations in Europe

[Anarax]

Hello all,

Is the financial aspect of operating a Dojo in Europe easier or harder than in the US? I'm more curious about operating a Dojo in Italy. The finances, bureaucracy, European vs American training methods, etc. Any insight and information would be greatly appreciated.

 

[geezer]

Hello all,

Is the financial aspect of operating a Dojo in Europe easier or harder than in the US? I'm more curious about operating a Dojo in Italy. The finances, bureaucracy, European vs American training methods, etc. Any insight and information would be greatly appreciated.

I'm sorry that I don't have any knowledge to share but I do find the topic interesting and hope some members here can answer this question! I have certain assumptions, based on posts I've read here on MA over the years that may be total misconceptions on my part, and I'd love to get some clarification.

For one thing, I've gotten the impression that both in the UK and Europe, there is more regulation and oversight of instruction. Here in the States virtually anybody can "hang out a shingle", declare themselves to be a martial arts expert and teach students. In my state, no business license, association affiliation, approval, or even liability insurance is legally required. So getting a class going is an easy thing here. Doing it right and being able to make a living off your school is something entirely different.

Another thing, in the US there is no universal health care system. Health care is offered through private health care insurance plans which must be paid for by individuals, and often offered through one's employment ...especially if you work for an established company. Self-employed individuals, like MA instructors must buy their own health insurance and, if you can't afford a good one, well.... So that is a consideration that may discourage some from starting their own school or business.

Finally, I'd like to know if everything in life is as litigious in Europe and here in the States. In case on accident or injury, people are quick to sue each other in the courts claiming negligence and seeking very large sums of money (in part to cover the cost of health care, as well as compensation for disability, pain and suffering, etc.). Having good liability coverage is a huge thing here. Is it equally important in Europe?

 

[dvcochran]

Hello all,

Is the financial aspect of operating a Dojo in Europe easier or harder than in the US? I'm more curious about operating a Dojo in Italy. The finances, bureaucracy, European vs American training methods, etc. Any insight and information would be greatly appreciated.

First, let me congratulate you for taking on the venture. Second, let me be clear that I am in the US so my experience is quite different.
It is my understanding there is more direct government control/limitations in Europe (UK?) and that all martial arts schools/gyms must operate as not for profit. This is the first thing I would determine; what kind of business entity you would be. Then I would build my business model around it.
Being capitalism driven here in the US, nearly all schools are for profit. That said, there are many, many levels of 'profit' people are willing to operate at.
Many schools are happy to break even. Some schools are operated with no/low overhead out of a garage or a back room at the instructor's home. Others are full-on high profile retail businesses in the highest traffic area of a business district with tons of overhead. Very different models that require a completely different approach.

I have seen some good posts regarding schools in Europe on this forum so hopefully some of those people will chime in.

Can you share where you are in the process? Are you starting from scratch or absorbing an existing operation?
Nearly all of it is exactly the same as any other service industry.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

It is my understanding there is more direct government control/limitations in Europe (UK?) and that all martial arts schools/gyms must operate as not for profit.

Someone made that claim (with regard to the UK specifically) in a recent thread, but they later clarified that the non-profit status was a requirement of the parent budo organization not the government.

 

[Instructor]

I'm teaching in the US (pro bono) but, I do have paying students overseas in various countries in my distance learning program. I'll be interested to see where this thread goes.

 

[geezer]

I'm teaching in the US (pro bono) but, I do have paying students overseas in various countries in my distance learning program. I'll be interested to see where this thread goes.

Me too. My first experience teaching here in the States was being pushed into teaching by my first sifu who was trying to set up a martial arts MLM company. I went along only because I wanted to have continued instruction directly from him ...which I got for a while.

Ultimately like most people involved in multi-level marketing schemes, the recruiting work involving endless salesmanship and personal expense was unsustainable. I ended up burned out and quit the martial arts altogether for over a decade.

 

[Anarax]

Can you share where you are in the process? Are you starting from scratch or absorbing an existing operation?
Nearly all of it is exactly the same as any other service industry.

I'm moving there in a few years, starting from scratch

 

[Cynik75]

First of all: Europe is not a single state. Laws and regulations in each state are different.

 

[WaterGal]

It is my understanding there is more direct government control/limitations in Europe (UK?) and that all martial arts schools/gyms must operate as not for profit. This is the first thing I would determine; what kind of business entity you would be. Then I would build my business model around it.

I doubt this is the actual law, because I know there are at least some commercial type schools in Europe. However, it does seem like a lot of the European people who post on here are teaching at or taking classes at a community center type venue rather than a commercial full-time school. So I'm guessing that, regardless of what the law is, that that kind of non-profit rec center school arrangement is more common over there for whatever reason. And if that's what people are used to, it may make it more difficult to sell people on a commercial school.

 

[Cynik75]

I train in a fully commercial place. Here in Warsaw, Poland .most of popular styles schools is commercial.

 

[dvcochran]

I doubt this is the actual law, because I know there are at least some commercial type schools in Europe. However, it does seem like a lot of the European people who post on here are teaching at or taking classes at a community center type venue rather than a commercial full-time school. So I'm guessing that, regardless of what the law is, that that kind of non-profit rec center school arrangement is more common over there for whatever reason. And if that's what people are used to, it may make it more difficult to sell people on a commercial school.

That is good to know. I found the "for profit" requirement quite odd.

 

[Instructor]

I doubt this is the actual law, because I know there are at least some commercial type schools in Europe. However, it does seem like a lot of the European people who post on here are teaching at or taking classes at a community center type venue rather than a commercial full-time school. So I'm guessing that, regardless of what the law is, that that kind of non-profit rec center school arrangement is more common over there for whatever reason. And if that's what people are used to, it may make it more difficult to sell people on a commercial school.

I can't speak for Europeans but I teach in a non-profit environment here (a church) because I just want to enjoy martial arts with my friends without having the burden of fees and dealing with the IRS etc. We get great training together and no money changes hands so it's a very low stress environment for me. I can focus on being a teacher without having to be a business owner. I limit my class size by design for two reasons: one, fewer students equals more one on one time with teacher for each student, two I don't want herds of students leaving the local commercial dojo's and coming to my place simply because it is free. It would not be fair to those dojo's that do need the money to survive.