Deciding Not to Be a Victim

[SFC JeffJ]

I went off topic on another thread, so it seemed like I should just start one about it.

Much of our culture seems, to me at least, encourages the ''victim" mindset.

We had "experts" saying we should just give into criminals so we don't make the situation worse, schools who punish kids defending themselves along with the attackers. A growing idea that it's law enforcements duty to protect each of us individually. The list goes on.

What can we, outside of training up our students, do to help get rid of these attitudes?

Jeff

 

[Drac]

I went off topic on another thread, so it seemed like I should just start one about it.

Much of our culture seems, to me at least, encourages the ''victim" mindset.

We had "experts" saying we should just give into criminals so we don't make the situation worse

Unless it was THEM or their Mother, Father, Sister, Borther, Wife, Husband being attacked

schools who punish kids defending themselves along with the attackers.

Sad but true, the attacked NEVER gets punished..Then the victim faces ANOTHER attack outside of school properly..Now if the attacker is a "poplular" student only the victim get punished..

A growing idea that it's law enforcements duty to protect each of us individually.

Blame all those who passed around the horror stories of being arrested by the police for defending themselves..They usually left out key elements of the story like how they used a tire iron against a smaller intoxicated person who could barely stand and somhow managed to throw a punch..

What can we, outside of training up our students, do to help get rid of these attitudes?

I have no suggestions..Anyone else???

 

[Infinite]

Well in the united states we have about three options.

1) Start a lobby group in Washington to change some of the laws or perceived laws that are about to be written.
1a) Do the same thing at the state level.

2) Start a non profit group for education on when it is and is not ok to defend oneself and provide help for legal or other costs (Ala the ACLU model)

3) Start a group that engages schools to try and educate the administration on the hazords of duel punishment techniques. The goal here would be to start a movement in the education sector that allows for more detailed accounts of violence occuring and better descisions based on that.

An interesting idea I'd be willing to donate time/money/effort into it but I'm not sure how many others would.

 

[Drac]

Start a group that engages schools to try and educate the administration on the hazords of duel punishment techniques. The goal here would be to start a movement in the education sector that allows for more detailed accounts of violence occuring and better descisions based on that...An interesting idea I'd be willing to donate time/money/effort into it but I'm not sure how many others would.

Hey, I'm up for it..

 

[Infinite]

So I think the best idea would be to create the group and get a web page. Put together some promotional material that highlights the goals and objectives of the group.

Then we would do some pr releases to get some press and hopefully get some exposure we could capatalize on. We could then either enter schools with a more traditional voilence is bad what to do in the case of violence. Meanwhile we use that time to estabilish credability and influence some of the school behavior.

OR we could simply start with the premis that the good somaritan law is there fore a reson and try to impress that apon the administrations but if we don't offer anything to the student body I'm not sure if they would talk to us.

 

[Drac]

We need to check with the school's DARE officer for his imput..

 

[Tez3]

People are encouraged to have a 'victim' attitude for two reasons I think. Firstly it pays to be a victim, literally. The compensation culture is rife with people suing over anything that they can and the courts awarding big payouts. The other reason is that whatever happens that is even slightly 'not nice' you need to go to counselling for it! As people are fond of pointing out over here, Londoners got all throught the Blitz in the war with needing counselling yet now people are told they need help for the slightest little thing. It is weakening people and it then becomes a self fulfilling prophecy,they feel unable to cope with life and won't be able to defend themselves.

 

[Infinite]

We need to check with the school's DARE officer for his imput..

Well I DARE say we would have to include any local enforcement at the school

Pun intended.

 

[Drac]

Well I DARE say we would have to include any local enforcement at the school

Pun intended.

LOL...

 

[SFC JeffJ]

Blame all those who passed around the horror stories of being arrested by the police for defending themselves..They usually left out key elements of the story like how they used a tire iron against a smaller intoxicated person who could barely stand and somhow managed to throw a punch..

As far as that aspect of the problem goes, I think what you are saying is only a small part of the problem. I think the larger aspect would be more and more people giving up responsibility of large chuncks of their own lives.

Jeff

 

[SFC JeffJ]

So I think the best idea would be to create the group and get a web page. Put together some promotional material that highlights the goals and objectives of the group.

Then we would do some pr releases to get some press and hopefully get some exposure we could capatalize on. We could then either enter schools with a more traditional voilence is bad what to do in the case of violence. Meanwhile we use that time to estabilish credability and influence some of the school behavior.

OR we could simply start with the premis that the good somaritan law is there fore a reson and try to impress that apon the administrations but if we don't offer anything to the student body I'm not sure if they would talk to us.

Great Ideas!

I think I will start looking into the legalities behind starting a non-profit organization. This has been getting to me for years now, and it just seems to be getting worse in some regards. I might as well get off of my *** and try to get a little more active about it!

Jeff

 

[SFC JeffJ]

People are encouraged to have a 'victim' attitude for two reasons I think. Firstly it pays to be a victim, literally. The compensation culture is rife with people suing over anything that they can and the courts awarding big payouts. The other reason is that whatever happens that is even slightly 'not nice' you need to go to counselling for it! As people are fond of pointing out over here, Londoners got all throught the Blitz in the war with needing counselling yet now people are told they need help for the slightest little thing. It is weakening people and it then becomes a self fulfilling prophecy,they feel unable to cope with life and won't be able to defend themselves.

That is a great point that I had never considered in this. I'm going to have to pull out my thinking cap on that.

Jeff

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

People are encouraged to have a 'victim' attitude for two reasons I think. Firstly it pays to be a victim, literally. The compensation culture is rife with people suing over anything that they can and the courts awarding big payouts. The other reason is that whatever happens that is even slightly 'not nice' you need to go to counselling for it! As people are fond of pointing out over here, Londoners got all throught the Blitz in the war with needing counselling yet now people are told they need help for the slightest little thing. It is weakening people and it then becomes a self fulfilling prophecy,they feel unable to cope with life and won't be able to defend themselves.

Unfortunately this is so true!

 

[Drac]

The compensation culture is rife with people suing over anything that they can and the courts awarding big payouts

Happens over her too, ALOT...

 

[Infinite]

Great Ideas!

I think I will start looking into the legalities behind starting a non-profit organization. This has been getting to me for years now, and it just seems to be getting worse in some regards. I might as well get off of my *** and try to get a little more active about it!

Jeff

It isn't so hard you need a board and have to keep track of all the money you accept vs what you do with it. At the end of the year you have to have a balance of zero.

If you get it going I have a server I can host the website on for free. I'd be willing to help out as well.

 

[SFC JeffJ]

It isn't so hard you need a board and have to keep track of all the money you accept vs what you do with it. At the end of the year you have to have a balance of zero.

If you get it going I have a server I can host the website on for free. I'd be willing to help out as well.

Great!

 

[SFC JeffJ]

It isn't so hard you need a board and have to keep track of all the money you accept vs what you do with it. At the end of the year you have to have a balance of zero.

If you get it going I have a server I can host the website on for free. I'd be willing to help out as well.

Ok, is what I meant to say before hitting enter was a little more detailed that just "great!"

I'll do net research on this for the next couple of days, and when I get back from a soon upcoming business trip, I'll put a lot of thought into if I'll be able to do this or not. Right now, I don't see why I couldn't. This could turn into a very good thing I think.

Jeff

 

[tempus]

One solution would be to get out and vote when the time comes. I do not want to bring up a politcal debate, since they get nasty, but the last congressional election I think voter turn out was only around 42%. If the public allows people into positions of power that are anti-gun, anti-defense, license this and that, then it gets harder to change things. Just my two cents.

-Tempus

 

[bushidomartialarts]

that part of the victim culture is really just a small segment of the problem. people in general are taking less and less responsibility for all facets of their lives (not just self-protection).

"i'm an alcoholic because my father was an alcoholic"
"i can't get a good job because the system is against me"
"i'm a jerk because my parents hit me when i was a kid"
"i can't get ahead because i'm a member of a minority"

one thing we can all do right away to help fight this is to make sure we exemplify the opposite attitude any and every time we're within earshot of a child.

nazi germany happened because of how children grew up in world war 1 and the depression.

the current situation in the middle east happened because of how children grew up after the creation of israel.

our society will be fixed by adults seeing to it that children grow up with a sense of power, honor and responsibility.

 

[Infinite]

Lots of good input guys.

So the new org should,

Exemplify personal responsibility

Clearly define what is accept and not acceptable for self defense

Provide resources for people who have questions about self defense

Work with schools to educate children

Work with schools to educate princpals and school boards on the hazards of duel punishment techniques

Reach out to LEO's public facing orginizations to assist and combine resources

Possibly:
Work with the government to change laws
Possibly provide monetary support for people (ACLU Style)
Work with lawyers in an attempt to provide free legal guidence for schools on the issues