Could BJJ use this?

[Patrick Skerry]

Provided they were wearing kimonos, could a BJJ practitioner use this professional wrestling move as a submission hold??

http://www.catchwrestling.com/pictures/historical_pictures/pages/54fra04deglane-krumin_jpg.htm

 

[Andrew Green]

Provided they were wearing kimonos, could a BJJ practitioner use this professional wrestling move as a submission hold??

http://www.catchwrestling.com/pictures/historical_pictures/pages/54fra04deglane-krumin_jpg.htm

Yes, a variation on that type of technique is fairly common from spider guard.

 

[Patrick Skerry]

Yes, a variation on that type of technique is fairly common from spider guard.

What does BJJ call this variation? Is it in Portugeese? Is there a website where I can see the BJJ version of this thing?

Thanks!

 

[Andrew Green]

What does BJJ call this variation? Is it in Portugeese? Is there a website where I can see the BJJ version of this thing?

Thanks!

Usually a Bicep splice, in catch I believe they call it a arm scissor... or is it short arm scissor... something like that I think.

 

[Patrick Skerry]

Usually a Bicep splice, in catch I believe they call it a arm scissor... or is it short arm scissor... something like that I think.

Thanks for your input Andrew,

Just out of curiosity, what is your personal opinion of this photograph?

 

[Andrew Green]

I'm having a hard time invisioning a useful set up that would lead into that technique done in that position...

 

[Patrick Skerry]

I'm having a hard time invisioning a useful set up that would lead into that technique done in that position...

Yeah, but these guys got into it somehow. It looks like the referee is going to need some help to untie them.

 

[Andrew Green]

First question would be is it a shoot or a work?

That might explain how they got there.

 

[Patrick Skerry]

First question would be is it a shoot or a work?

That might explain how they got there.

Hi Andrew,

Sorry, I know nothing about BJJ, and I don't know what 'shoot' or 'work' refers to in matwork.

But I think there is a methodology to go into this, just as there are for all judo newaza (mat techniques).

Personally I think the pro-wrestling of the 1960s was a lot more realisitic than the non-sense I see in today's WWF. I think those 60 era or earlier pro-wrestlers would give any body today a hard time.

 

[Andrew Green]

Hi Andrew,

Sorry, I know nothing about BJJ, and I don't know what 'shoot' or 'work' refers to in matwork.

Nothing to do with BJJ... has to do with Catch

Shoot - Real fight

Work - Predetermined outcome

Catch evolved into worked fights from shoot fights.

Early then the 60's things where being worked, just they weren't as blatantly obvious about it.

 

[Patrick Skerry]

Nothing to do with BJJ... has to do with Catch

Shoot - Real fight

Work - Predetermined outcome

Catch evolved into worked fights from shoot fights.

Early then the 60's things where being worked, just they weren't as blatantly obvious about it.

What's the diff between catch and pro-wrestling?

 

[Fight with attitude]

What's the diff between catch and pro-wrestling?

It's the same thing...in the 1800's pro wrestling was catch wrestling...catch wrestling just means submission only wrestling.. no pins.

What they use to do was have a best 2 of 3 match..the first collar and elbow..the second was an Olympic style match..and the 3rd if needed was catch wrestling.

Later it got put into one..catch and Olympic style.

BTW the pic is a work.

 

[Patrick Skerry]

It's the same thing...in the 1800's pro wrestling was catch wrestling...catch wrestling just means submission only wrestling.. no pins.

What they use to do was have a best 2 of 3 match..the first collar and elbow..the second was an Olympic style match..and the 3rd if needed was catch wrestling.

Later it got put into one..catch and Olympic style.

BTW the pic is a work.

How can you tell? Uke looks pretty upset about his situation.

 

[Fight with attitude]

How can you tell? Uke looks pretty upset about his situation.

I've seen this pic around before...one of the last shoots took place in 1915...there were a few shoots in the 1920's and this wasn't it.

 

[Shogun]

Its a definite work. I have Pro wrestling (worked) training, under a local indy fed. worked matches have fake pain. like WWE stuff.

 

[Patrick Skerry]

Provided they were wearing kimonos, could a BJJ practitioner use this professional wrestling move as a submission hold??

http://www.catchwrestling.com/pictures/historical_pictures/pages/54fra04deglane-krumin_jpg.htm

The closest thing I could find to this in judo is the Ashi Sangaku Garami (which looks like a hammer lock done with the legs), but has now been banned by the IJF.

 

[ace]

The closest thing I could find to this in judo is the Ashi Sangaku Garami (which looks like a hammer lock done with the legs), but has now been banned by the IJF.

Neil Adams show a very close move to this
In his Armlock Book & on the Video Modern Competive Judo.

A good set up for this Move is When Your Oppent is Trying to stop U from
for Jujigatame , Cross Armlock or in PRO -Wrestling Terms
CODE RED.

Put The knife edge of your for arm into the Elbow
Lets Say it's Your Lef Arm U Then Wrap Your Left Leg over the Top
And sit Back towards Your Left Shoulder.

 

[Shogun]

CODE RED is also the name of a sunset flip/powerbomb combo.

 

[8253]

anything can be used as a submission move.

 

[Fight with attitude]

anything can be used as a submission move.

True..but the trick is could it be done against a resisting parnter.