Core Training

[Tsuki-Yomi]

I have been watching a show on television where they speak with individual athletes about their training for their specific sport. Anyway, a couple of weeks ago they had Chris Chelios from the Detroit Redwings on there. He spoke of earlier in his career it was all about lifting weights, but now he focuses primarily on core training because of his back problems. Many of the excersizes revolved around the use of one of those big balls, but Chris claimed that his back had never felt better since begining this kind of training.

I am wondering if anyone uses these balls, and if it helps for back pain.

A little history.. Did shots for a year, then got lower back surgery a year ago. The problem was a herniated/ruptured disc. So I have been to the Doctor, got the problem dealt with, now I am looking for new ways of building it back up without aggrevating that area. Anyone have anything they can share? Thanks

 

[7starmarc]

There are a number of core strengthening exercise programs out there. Balance ball programs are pretty common in health clubs and physical therapy gyms. There's also a device called a BOSU that looks like half a balance ball, which can be used as well (my wife uses one with some of her clients, as a personal trainer). Kettle bell work can strengthen the core muscles as well. That's not to say that proper crunches and back extension exercises can't bring you a long way, but some of these other methods force you into core stabilization even when you're working out other parts of your body.

And yes, a lot of this can help with back pain. Although, proper mechanics is also key. And if you have a specific pathology (disc problem, etc.), it won't do as much.

 

[seasoned]

It’s inexpensive compared to back problems. Get the ball. The back needs stretching and straightening to stay healthy. I feel the ball can do both.

 

[redantstyle]

taichi?

 

[punisher73]

There are a number of core strengthening exercise programs out there. Balance ball programs are pretty common in health clubs and physical therapy gyms. There's also a device called a BOSU that looks like half a balance ball, which can be used as well (my wife uses one with some of her clients, as a personal trainer). Kettle bell work can strengthen the core muscles as well. That's not to say that proper crunches and back extension exercises can't bring you a long way, but some of these other methods force you into core stabilization even when you're working out other parts of your body.

And yes, a lot of this can help with back pain. Although, proper mechanics is also key. And if you have a specific pathology (disc problem, etc.), it won't do as much.

I would stick with the kettlebell exercises and avoid the balance balls while lifting weights. I have read studies that showed MRI's and it is mostly hype. To activate muscles you need to put them on a load that they are not used to. If you are lifting light weights and trying to balance you are not activating as many muscles as if you are doing a heavy squat to stabilize the trunk.

If you have health issues obviously you might not be able to start with those, but stick to movements that move the body through the most space and avoid machines that lock your body into an unnatural movement.

 

[mozzandherb]

I would stick with the kettlebell exercises and avoid the balance balls while lifting weights. I have read studies that showed MRI's and it is mostly hype. To activate muscles you need to put them on a load that they are not used to. If you are lifting light weights and trying to balance you are not activating as many muscles as if you are doing a heavy squat to stabilize the trunk.

If you have health issues obviously you might not be able to start with those, but stick to movements that move the body through the most space and avoid machines that lock your body into an unnatural movement.

So you are saying that it's not good to train with the Swiss ball while lifting weights? When I go to the gym, I see tons of people mixing ball training and weight training. I agree that squats, deadlifts, goodmornings and back extensions are all great for the core, but I would have to disagree with not using the ball while lifting weights.

 

[Tsuki-Yomi]

So you are saying that it's not good to train with the Swiss ball while lifting weights? When I go to the gym, I see tons of people mixing ball training and weight training. I agree that squats, deadlifts, goodmornings and back extensions are all great for the core, but I would have to disagree with not using the ball while lifting weights.

Not sure on the trainers name, but on that paticular program I mentioned the excersize you just mentioned with laying your back on the ball and using dumbbells was exactly what that trainer had Chris Chelios doing.

Also, as far as the comment about stretching daily. I find that the more I stretch the more the area is aggrevated the next day.

 

[7starmarc]

I would stick with the kettlebell exercises and avoid the balance balls while lifting weights. I have read studies that showed MRI's and it is mostly hype. To activate muscles you need to put them on a load that they are not used to. If you are lifting light weights and trying to balance you are not activating as many muscles as if you are doing a heavy squat to stabilize the trunk.

If you have health issues obviously you might not be able to start with those, but stick to movements that move the body through the most space and avoid machines that lock your body into an unnatural movement.

Do you have any of these studies? Also, MRI wouldn't show muscle activation, do you mean EMG? Admittedly, I don't have any studies to cite, but I believe that many have shown the opposite -- that you do get significant activation of core muscles during exercises performed with the balance ball/BOSU. Also, from personal experience, I can tell you that these pieces of equipment do force you to activate you core muscles much more than similar exercises on more stable platforms.

Also, performing exercises with proper form and with the proper size equipment does not force or lock you into unnatural movements. To the contrary, most of my experience with these types of exercises has forced me to use more proper technique and control as compared to traditional weight lifting.

 

[7starmarc]

Do you have any of these studies? Also, MRI wouldn't show muscle activation, do you mean EMG? Admittedly, I don't have any studies to cite, but I believe that many have shown the opposite -- that you do get significant activation of core muscles during exercises performed with the balance ball/BOSU. Also, from personal experience, I can tell you that these pieces of equipment do force you to activate you core muscles much more than similar exercises on more stable platforms.

Also, performing exercises with proper form and with the proper size equipment does not force or lock you into unnatural movements. To the contrary, most of my experience with these types of exercises has forced me to use more proper technique and control as compared to traditional weight lifting.

After a quick search, I did find at least one study along the lines you mentioned. I'm not sure their methodology or conclusions are that concrete, as they are comparing different types of exercises (1RM to sets (light weight or body weight)). Also, there are other studies which do compare muscle activation in stability ball vs. conventional set exercises with increased core muscle activity. Bottom line is that both types of exercises seem to be beneficial. Also, they are aimed at slightly different goals. One is strength, the other is stability. Stability equipment may have an edge in neural pathways and dynamic (reactive) stability, whereas deadlift/squats may have the advantage in stability in a ridgid core. Is there crossover? Of course. But I did not find any studies which provided a definitive "best", as there appears to be a strong "apples and oranges" effect going on here.

 

[punisher73]

It is apples and oranges. You are talking about elite athletes that are trying to get ANY advantage to make them a FRACTION better at what they do.

For the average person, I think, their time would be better spent strengthening the core through direct lifting and exercise. In nature, there is no such thing as an isolation movement. Yet most people in the gym spend most of their time on machines than isolate everything into it's basic muscle group. For example, instead of doing squats that work the WHOLE body, they sit and do leg extensions. Taking it a step further, let's look at one of the common exercises I see used all the time on an exercise ball.

The trainer has the person grab a sub-maximal pair of dumbbells and sit on the ball to do shoulder presses (let's not talk about injuries because the ball pops). Granted it is a lot better than the lift where people sit on a straight back chair so they only use their shoulders because you are on the ball you have to try and balance while lifting so that gets some "core" workout. What is the purpose of the lift though? To exercise your shoulders or core? You aren't getting a good workout for your shoulders because you can't lift as heavy as you usally do. You are doing abdominal and lower back exercises. How many times in real life do you sit on a big bouncy object and try to press something over your head? I can't think of any.

Now, let's look at another exercise that will combine the core of the body with working the shoulders. Do a power clean and press. You are again using the whole body to lift the weight up to a push position and then pressing it overhead. I have had to do this in real life more times than I can remember. Pick up something and then have to place it on a shelf.

I am not against training the core as it's own thing, but it should be done to best maximize your time and effort. Some good exercises that can help in conjunction with MA training is "chopping" or getting a heavy sledgehammer and hitting a buried tire with it like you would if you were chopping wood. Another is working drills with a medicine ball.

 

[astrobiologist]

Agreed with the good usage of time you're suggesting, but remember this poster has some back pain and heavy lifting may not be optimal. From my years of reading Men's Health, AskMen.com, several fitness books, and the little bit I got from my pre-med friends while working on my degree in Biology I have actually heard that using balancing exercises is a great way to strengthen your core. I remember sometime back hearing about a study which tested lifters who did light lifting while standing on top of surfaces that were shaking small amounts at a very fast speed, if I recall correctly the study showed not only greater increases in strength as compared to lifting without the surface, but also greater recovery.

I agree that you're not going to find a Swiss ball in the woods while you're carrying a log home to chop up for the fire, but what does that matter? martial arts training should be applicable, lifting does not necessarily need to be. Indeed, to really target muscles and movements that seldom get used it may be better to do some things that seem a little crazy.

On another note, for core exercises, I love the Abs Diet. Check out the book. It's totally worth a read!

 

[Josh Oakley]

Not sure on the trainers name, but on that paticular program I mentioned the excersize you just mentioned with laying your back on the ball and using dumbbells was exactly what that trainer had Chris Chelios doing.

Also, as far as the comment about stretching daily. I find that the more I stretch the more the area is aggrevated the next day.

This could be in the manner that you're stretching. It's not just a matter of stretching, it's a matter of stretching properly. A great book for this is called Stretching Scientifically.

 

[Tsuki-Yomi]

This could be in the manner that you're stretching. It's not just a matter of stretching, it's a matter of stretching properly. A great book for this is called Stretching Scientifically.

Hi Josh, thanks for the book reference. I am quite familiar with the works of Tom Kurz, and enjoy reading his articles in BlackBelt Magazine. That being said, I have that book as well as Bill Wallaces, and several others by Sang H. Kim.

 

[astrobiologist]

This could be in the manner that you're stretching. It's not just a matter of stretching, it's a matter of stretching properly. A great book for this is called Stretching Scientifically.

Ya, that is a pretty good reference book for flexibility training...