Combining Systema and PTP training. Is it possible?

[alexk]

Hi all,

On this and few others RMA forums I keep seeing people praising Tsatsouline books. I like them myself and find the techniques in the PTP very beneficial for my strength development.
However, one thing came to bother me greatly recently -- how do I combine my PTP or for that matter any other strength training methodology with my systema training? I'm worried that I'm hindering my systema training with all that heavy iron.
Here is why I feel this way:
1. Pavel has a very good point that strength training is all about generating tension. So, you're taught all these techniques of visualisation power breathing, etc to help you tense up your body.
Systema is all about relaxed, fluid movements -- exactly the opposite.
So, ideally, I should be training myself how to relax rather than how to tense up.

2. Breathing.
I found that doing some Buteiko style breathing exercises before systema practice, helps a great deal, as it relaxes me. Holding breath, as Pavel advocates, seems to have the opposite effect (while it does help the lifts)

3. Mind set. PTP style training makes feel great! I feel energized, confident in my strength, ready to tackle any problem head on.
But that's exactly the wrong attitude when it comes to systema training, as it encourages me to use brute force.

So to me it seems that PTP (or GTG for that matter) training can't be easily mixed with Systema? Yet, I've noticed a lot of people on this and other RMA boards happily doing just that.
Guys, what am I missing?
Are there people here who are able to combine systema and strength training in such a way that they complement each other rather than get in each other's way?

Thanks a lot,

-- Alex

 

[Furtry]

In order to really understand true relaxation you need to understand true tension.
Knowing when to apply one or the other is the mastery of both.

 

[alexk]

Thanks Furty,
I agree with your statement in general. But can you offer any specific details?
It's obvious that I'm missing something and need help. Otherwise, I wouldn't be posting.
So, do you personally, combine weight lifting with systema?
How does it work for you?
If you do, do you feel that weight lifting is helping you to be better at systema, or does it help you achieve different goals?
Have you ever felt that a strength training routine is in the way of your systema practice?

Thanks,

 

[Furtry]

Thanks Furty,
I agree with your statement in general. But can you offer any specific details?
It's obvious that I'm missing something and need help. Otherwise, I wouldn't be posting.
1)So, do you personally, combine weight lifting with systema?
2)How does it work for you?
3)If you do, do you feel that weight lifting is helping you to be better at systema, or does it help you achieve different goals?
4)Have you ever felt that a strength training routine is in the way of your systema practice?

Thanks,

1) Yes, but no static movements. I do allot of core strength and dynamic exercises.
2)http://www.russianmartialart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=555
3) It has helped. I did it to rehab a bad knee at first, but now I do it because I enjoy the type of lifting I do.
4) At first, the problem for new guys is that they rely on strength when in trouble instead of finding the smart way out.
So get an understanding of Systema first then start to lift.
Systema is not about strength.

 

[NYCRonin]

My dear friend Furtry is right, as usual.
Tension understanding is a prat of relaxation understanding - it is a rther wide apple, though; for one to attempt to consume in a few bites.

If Systema understanding is your priority -- then thats where you should concentrate the effort. I was a 20 year vet of weight work before Systema came to my life - and I knew alot about the iron. I was a big strong guy. I decided to completly stay away from my iron -- and did so for 2 years -- as I learned to relax and be loose/sensitive to the minesiological awareness of movement that Vlad was trying to 'beat' into me. Once I got 'it' (to whatever degree I 'have' it now) -- I was able to return to the iron. I learned of pavel...and tried his ideas...and now use a mix of his and my own preferences.
BUT -- the Systema comes first and foremost.

In a month -- I will be 50 years old. I am physically and mentally stronger than ANY of my peers in my circle of life. THAt was not from the iron...it has been the mix of Systema, many different methodologies - and the iron as well.

To attempt to exactly out line a training program to do this - for another - is way too extensive....for each of us has different goals and needs. Systema has 'self knowledge' at its very core -- and only the individual can answer his questions...about Systema...training and the iron as well.

 

[Stratiotes]

I understand how strength training and systema philosophy seem to be contradictory. But, I find that my tendency to resort to brute force is most prevalent when I am frustrated or afraid. PTP helps to limit that feeling of helplesseness that feeds that tendency.

Also, I don't view PTP as "force" so much as "control." Controlling pain and breathing, controlling tension and relaxation, and so on.

 

[alexk]

Everyone, thanks for your replies. I think they just confirmed my own feeling that combining systema and weight training is not going to be easy for someone who's new to both. Yet I'm tempted to try. For the following reasons:

1. Weight training makes me feel great. Pavel is correct about tonic effect of the heavy weights and small number of reps.
2. It's beneficial for my health. Since I started doing deadlifts, the way Pavel describes them, it feels as if I got a brand new spine! I wake up in the morning with a wonderful feeling of bouyancy, I had when I was 5.
3. Being physically strong and skilled at dealing with heavy weights can come in handy in many different situations, say moving to a new house, or rearranging my furniture, or lifting my girfriend up in the air every time she asks me whether she is getting fat "Honey, to me, you're as light as a feather"

So if I teach myself to think about my weight training only in terms of peaceful applications, something like I listed above, it will not interfere with my systema?

 

[Furtry]

Yes.