Combat hapkido system vs. traditional hapkido systems

[Drac]

Amen to that!

Regarding the part highlighted in blue, I wonder how many people would take issue if he referred to it specifically as Jeon-tu kwan.

Daniel

Probably no one....

Jeon-tu kwan.

I thought it was spelled Chon-Tu-Kwan..I could be wrong

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Probably no one....

Agreed.

I thought it was spelled Chon-Tu-Kwan..I could be wrong

Actually, you are not; we're both correct.

Truth be told, I hadn't noticed until you pointed it out. Here is the hangul:전 투관 합기도

Depends on the Romanization. That first character (the ^ with a horizontal line over the top) is 'j'. 'CH' looks like the 'J' character with a dash above it. The l with a dash to the left is generally rendered eo, so I just assumed that it was jeon.

I looked in GMP's literature, however, and you are correct: he calls it Chon Tu. I checked Wiki and it shows "Chon tu hapkido" in McCune-Reischauer and "Jeon tu hapgido" in Revised Romanization.

We get the same thing with kumdo: it can kum, gum, gom, or geom.

Daniel

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Okay, so after a good amount of digging and discussion, it seems to me that once you strip away marketing (the combat moniker), distance learning, and the paramilitary look sometimes sported by GMP in magazines, CHKD is pretty traditional. Oh yes, GMP is Italian and not Korean.

Which begs the question (to me at least): why refer to it as being separate from traditional hapkido?

Daniel

 

[Hollywood1340]

I'm beginning to feel like a broken record here. Dig deeper

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I'm beginning to feel like a broken record here. Dig deeper

Happy to do so.

Though I suppose that one other factor is what one means when they say, "traditional." I have seen almost anything with a belt categorized as traditional by some, while others have more specific definitions. Another question is whether or not an art that is less than a century old can truly be considered 'traditional' in the grand scheme of martial arts.

Given the eclectic background of modern hapkido, what I have seen so far of CHKD is hardly out of line with other styles of hapkido.

Daniel

 

[Disco]

I'm somewhat surprised at the length of this thread, for this subject has been reviewed more than once and fairly lengthy. I have nothing to offer, except perhaps to go back into the MT history vault and review what's there pertaining to this subject. One may perhaps avail themselves of different viewpoints by folks who no longer participate here on MT. Just a suggestion!

 

[Drac]

I'm somewhat surprised at the length of this thread, for this subject has been reviewed more than once and fairly lengthy. !

I must agree..:deadhorse

 

[dancingalone]

The thread is lengthy because you CHKD guys haven't answered the questions at hand, other than referring Daniel back to GM P. And that's OK, but I'm not sure where some of the seeming lack of patience for his questions originates from. He's trying to learn something that I think many here actually are curious about. What IS different about CHKD?

From what I surmise the answer is a few techniques and ideas taken from BJJ and Filipino martial arts. Also an overall philosophy to avoid kicking high at all. Otherwise, there's not much difference at all, but it would be nice for a representative of CHKD on these boards to state so unequivocally.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I'm somewhat surprised at the length of this thread, for this subject has been reviewed more than once and fairly lengthy. I have nothing to offer, except perhaps to go back into the MT history vault and review what's there pertaining to this subject. One may perhaps avail themselves of different viewpoints by folks who no longer participate here on MT. Just a suggestion!

Prior threads that I have seen over the past year seem to have about a page worth of pseudo discussion followed by seven pages of trolling. This is a fairly lengthy discussion minus the trolls, which I feel differentiates it quite a bit from previous threads.

There may be older threads that did not involve trolling, but I had specific questions and I wanted to set a specific tone, so I felt that a fresh start was in order.

Daniel

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

The thread is lengthy because you CHKD guys haven't answered the questions at hand, other than referring Daniel back to GM P.

Given the insane level of trolling that has occurred in previous threads on the subject, I can kind of understand why.

And that's OK, but I'm not sure where some of the seeming lack of patience for his questions originates from. He's trying to learn something that I think many here actually are curious about. What IS different about CHKD?

From what I surmise the answer is a few techniques and ideas taken from BJJ and Filipino martial arts. Also an overall philosophy to avoid kicking high at all. Otherwise, there's not much difference at all, but it would be nice for a representative of CHKD on these boards to state so unequivocally.

BJJ and Filipino arts seem to have influenced many, both within and without HKD, so I do not consider these to differentiate CHKD from anything else. Avoidance of high kicks is also not uncommon in more SD oriented schools, and is, in my opinion, more "traditional," at least in a practical fighting sense, than high kicks are, so I do not consider that to be a differentiating factor either.

Given that the DVDs are not all that expensive, I am seriously considering ordering the vol. 1 DVD (yellow & orange belt) just to see it for myself. If I really like what I see, I may order the next volume.

Daniel

 

[Disco]

"There may be older threads that did not involve trolling, but I had specific questions and I wanted to set a specific tone, so I felt that a fresh start was in order."

The only problem with attempting to look for a "fresh start" is that anyone from those previous years and threads (look at 2001/2002/2003 time frame), who had supposedly actual knowledge of the whys and where fores on this subject are no longer here to offer rebuttals or opposing viewpoints. A few of those referenced people were high ranking Hapkido instructors, so trolls were not the issue. As Hollywood 1340 stated "dig deeper".

As one can plainly see, the only contributions that have been forthcoming are from those who are directly involved with CHKD. If your wondering why I'm even offering to post on this subject, it's because I'm attempting to assist you with your questions and not be directly involved in something that has no real finality to it. I will however quote Drac here: "My attitude has always been that if you dont like the Grandmaster or the discipline, DONT STUDY IT !!"

 

[Drac]

but it would be nice for a representative of CHKD on these boards to state so unequivocally.

Yes, having a representative would be nice here would be nice. Unfortunately, there isnt one. Which is why a refer questions about the orgins of CHKD to HQ and GM Pellegrini or Master David Rivas..

"I will however quote Drac here: "My attitude has always been that if you dont like the Grandmaster or the discipline, DONT STUDY IT !!"

Thanks Disco.I cannot put it any plainer..

Given that the DVDs are not all that expensive, I am seriously considering ordering the vol. 1 DVD (yellow & orange belt) just to see it for myself. If I really like what I see, I may order the next volume.

If you check out e-Bay you may be able to find the whole collection cheaper.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Prior threads that I have seen over the past year seem to have about a page worth of pseudo discussion followed by seven pages of trolling. This is a fairly lengthy discussion minus the trolls, which I feel differentiates it quite a bit from previous threads.

There may be older threads that did not involve trolling, but I had specific questions and I wanted to set a specific tone, so I felt that a fresh start was in order.

The only problem with attempting to look for a "fresh start" is that anyone from those previous years and threads (look at 2001/2002/2003 time frame), who had supposedly actual knowledge of the whys and where fores on this subject are no longer here to offer rebuttals or opposing viewpoints.

That is the nature of internet forums: people come and go. Just as some of those people may be gone, people who were not on this board to offer opinions at that time are here now.

Also, this was split off from another thread, as stated in the OP.

A few of those referenced people were high ranking Hapkido instructors, so trolls were not the issue. As Hollywood 1340 stated "dig deeper".

Since my trolling comment was in reference to threads that have occurred over the past year or so, this would not apply the discussions of which you speak. I am sure that Dancing, Drac and Hollywood know the threads of which I speak and can probably guess of whom I speak with regards to trolling comments. Also, I find that one's rank in a martial art seemingly has no bearing on whether or not they will troll on the internet.

As for digging deeper, I'm not sure how much deeper you expect me to dig, short of taking the plunge and actually studying the system. I called DSI at the behest of some of the posters here and was contacted back by GMP directly. I have stated that I am considering purchasing vol. 1 of the DVD series to see it for myself. I have gone on Youtube searched out CHKD vids to see for myself.

Starting this thread was part of digging deeper as well. To be honest, the only reason that I post on MT is to learn more about martial arts from people who either know more than myself or who know things different from that which I know. I will take your suggestion and look at some of the older threads.

As one can plainly see, the only contributions that have been forthcoming are from those who are directly involved with CHKD. If your wondering why I'm even offering to post on this subject, it's because I'm attempting to assist you with your questions and not be directly involved in something that has no real finality to it. I will however quote Drac here: "My attitude has always been that if you dont like the Grandmaster or the discipline, DONT STUDY IT !!"

I am not sure where this response is coming from.

Firstly, your participation is certainly appreciated.

Secondly, I absolutely agree: if one does not like the GM or the system, then no, they should not study it.

That, however, is not the dynamic here. I have no dislike for GMP. After our phone conversation, my opinion of him went from a friendly neutral to solidly positive. Nor do I have any negative comments regarding what I have personally seen of the system, which admittedly is not all that much.

I am attempting to dig deeper and to make headway into understanding the system to a greater degree, thus I asked some specific questions:

What is the substantive differences between Combat Hapkido and traditional hapkido in general?

How much 'hapkido' is there in Combat Hapkido?

Exactly what was changed and what was added from other arts?

I am interested in what people have to say about the system and its content, not specifically about GMP.

Is the distance learning changed substantially, or at all, from the system as taught in person?

I understand that the organization allows for video grading. Firstly, is this true? Secondly, how strict are the guidelines for such a test? Thirdly, is there any rank that must be tested for in person?

If you have insight into any of them, it would be appreciated.

Daniel

 

[dancingalone]

If you check out e-Bay you may be able to find the whole collection cheaper.

Yeah, that's the avenue my friend took when he bought the CHKD disks we own. I gotta say, I have my doubts about whether we got authentic DSI disks or whether we just got pirated copies. Next time we buy some CHKD material, we'll order directly from Mr. Pelligrini's organization to make sure he receives some financial recompense for his work.

 

[dancingalone]

Originally Posted by Disco
A few of those referenced people were high ranking Hapkido instructors, so trolls were not the issue. As Hollywood 1340 stated "dig deeper".
Since my trolling comment was in reference to threads that have occurred over the past year or so, this would not apply the discussions of which you speak. I am sure that Dancing, Drac and Hollywood know the threads of which I speak and can probably guess of whom I speak with regards to trolling comments.

From my experience, some of the worst CHKD detractors are seasoned hapkido instructors, undoubtedly holding high dan ranks. It's obvious from the knowledge they sometimes show, even if they like to bash and troll CHKD.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Yes, having a representative would be nice here would be nice. Unfortunately, there isnt one. Which is why a refer questions about the orgins of CHKD to HQ and GM Pellegrini or Master David Rivas.

I suppose that it depends on how you define 'representative.' While there may be no high ranking members of GMP's organization, I consider anyone who studies a system to be a representative of it if they are participating in a discussion. I consider myself a representative of my HKD system and org, even if I'm not a high dan.

If you check out e-Bay you may be able to find the whole collection cheaper.

Appreciated.

Daniel

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

From my experience, some of the worst CHKD detractors are seasoned hapkido instructors, undoubtedly holding high dan ranks. It's obvious from the knowledge they sometimes show, even if they like to bash and troll CHKD.

Something that has raised some eyebrows on my part, but having been on MT for a couple of years, it is pretty evident.

As I said to Drac, practitioners from any organization who participate in discussions are representatives of their organization. Poor conduct on their part does, however unintentionally, reflect poorly on their organization. Whether or not they like or or choose to admit it.

People often have little clue how much they can affect how others view the organization with whom they are associated. F

or the record, since we're talking CHKD, the online behavior of CHKD folks in the discussions of which I have been a part has all been above board. Lots of excellent HKD folks as well.

Daniel

 

[Drac]

From my experience, some of the worst CHKD detractors are seasoned hapkido instructors, undoubtedly holding high dan ranks. It's obvious from the knowledge they sometimes show, even if they like to bash and troll CHKD.

And there were some here that broke away from CHKD after getting their Dan rank and proceeded to start their own system..We have had run ins with them here and face-to-face..

 

[Drac]

Yeah, that's the avenue my friend took when he bought the CHKD disks we own. I gotta say, I have my doubts about whether we got authentic DSI disks or whether we just got pirated copies. Next time we buy some CHKD material, we'll order directly from Mr. Pelligrini's organization to make sure he receives some financial recompense for his work.

I was unaware of pirated copies..Yes, it is far better to order from directly from DSI..

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

And there were some here that broke away from CHKD after getting their Dan rank and proceeded to start their own system..We have had run ins with them here and face-to-face..

Always a problem in any system.

I figured that my questions were specific enough to deter the sour grapes anecdotes that have appeared in other threads. So far, I guess that I figured correctly, as none have appeared here.

Daniel