Chung Do Kwan 1st Dan Black Belt Certification

[AyeshaT]

Hello. My daughter gained her 1st Dan black belt in Taekwondo over 2 years ago. We paid for a certificate to reflect and confirm this achievement and the certificate has been awarded by Hae Man Park, president of the World Tae Kwon Do Kwan Federation.

My question is this. Is this a world recognised qualification / certification and if so by who? Also would it be recognised by other Taekwondo bodies?

Thankyou very much.

 

[HighKick]

Hmm, GM Park, Hae Man is President of the Chung Do Kwan Association in Korea. I bolded association because it is a very 'Korean' thing to create their own organizations to be head of. I do not know a lot about CDK Perse, but I do know it has fractured, like most other Kwan organizations over they years. There are many CDK schools that are not affiliated with a main association or federation.

World Taekwondo (WT) does Not issue black belt certification. That is done by the Kukkiwon. Same blanket organization, different office or area of the business.

To your question of recognition, it may be recognized by other CDK schools, and hopefully it would carry weight if she transferred to another school, but it may not be a clean transfer since the required curriculum will likely be different. Her ability and acquired skills should carry more weight than the document.

 

[J. Pickard]

GM Park isn't the president of World Taekwondo, he is the president of the World Taekwondo Chung Do Kwan Federation. if it is a World CDK certificate with GM Park's signature on it, then it will likely be recognized by other kwans in S. Korea and Kukkiwon given that GM Park's Chung Do Kwan supports kukkiwon. So yes, it is internationally recognized as "legitimate".

However, that doesn't mean that any school will automatically recognize her rank. A lot of Schools have their own standards and don't really care about what a piece of paper says, but would rather you get out on the floor and show them what you can do. This way is much easier to place new or visiting students to make sure they are getting the training they need to improve.

Basically, it's a cool thing to have and given GM Park's age and recent health issues WCDK certificates with his signature on it will likely be a thing of the past soon.

 

[J. Pickard]

Hmm, GM Park, Hae Man is President of the Chung Do Kwan Association in Korea. I bolded association because it is a very 'Korean' thing to create their own organizations to be head of. I do not know a lot about CDK Perse, but I do know it has fractured, like most other Kwan organizations over they years. There are many CDK schools that are not affiliated with a main association or federation.

GM Park's CDK is only international CDK federation left and is actually the same CDK that was started by GM Lee in the 1940s. When CDK fractured it was basically between GM Park's instructor, GM Uhm, and GM Son. GM Son was left in charge by the founder, but Uhm took over shortly after the korean war. Son says he Usurped the position, Uhm says it was a unanimous vote between the kwan seniors. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. GM Son moved to the US and founded his own CDK Association in the 1960s. When GM Son died, his associated fractured and ultimately disbanded leaving only remnants of his original CDK behind, mostly on the east coast of the US. Most other CDK associations are branches or subsidiaries of GM Park's World CDK. The US CDK for example, led by GM Sell, is directly affiliated with World CDK under GM Park and is basically an American branch of WCDK. There are also a few groups out there that are direct lineage of the CDK Founder, GM Lee, after he defected from Korea but I believe they call their system Tang Soo Do Chung Do Kwan and did not adopt the TKD name. Politics like this is really why, as you said, your skills and abilities are more important than the certificate.

 

[AyeshaT]

GM Park isn't the president of World Taekwondo, he is the president of the World Taekwondo Chung Do Kwan Federation. if it is a World CDK certificate with GM Park's signature on it, then it will likely be recognized by other kwans in S. Korea and Kukkiwon given that GM Park's Chung Do Kwan supports kukkiwon. So yes, it is internationally recognized as "legitimate".

However, that doesn't mean that any school will automatically recognize her rank. A lot of Schools have their own standards and don't really care about what a piece of paper says, but would rather you get out on the floor and show them what you can do. This way is much easier to place new or visiting students to make sure they are getting the training they need to improve.

Basically, it's a cool thing to have and given GM Park's age and recent health issues WCDK certificates with his signature on it will likely be a thing of the past soon.

Thanks very much for your help. The angle we were coming in from was more to do with potential accreditation for other reasons. I understand that it is more to do with what the child can do on the floor which is the same with any certification really however in many cases the certification alone is a prerequisite. A recognised life saving certificate for lifeguards being one example.

I was able to speak to somebody face to face about it at another club this very evening and between the responses here on this forum and that conversation it has cleared things up. It is quite a complex thing for the uninitiated. Thankyou.

I believe the issuing club once awarded Kukiwon certificates but are no longer able to do that and hence the Chung Do Kwan certificates are now being issued as standard.

Given that it is, at the end of the day, a case of what the child can do on the floor the next question is why then should anyone want to pay for such a certificate given that they come in at £85 each?

 

[AyeshaT]

Finally, I apologise if I have offended anybody by asking the question. It is a legitimate question that ought to be asked. Our child has been practicing TKD for half of her life and the question of transferability of certification has cropped up owing to a need to change club.

As it turns out it appears to be a non issue.

 

[HighKick]

Thanks very much for your help. The angle we were coming in from was more to do with potential accreditation for other reasons. I understand that it is more to do with what the child can do on the floor which is the same with any certification really however in many cases the certification alone is a prerequisite. A recognised life saving certificate for lifeguards being one example.

I was able to speak to somebody face to face about it at another club this very evening and between the responses here on this forum and that conversation it has cleared things up. It is quite a complex thing for the uninitiated. Thankyou.

I believe the issuing club once awarded Kukiwon certificates but are no longer able to do that and hence the Chung Do Kwan certificates are now being issued as standard.

Given that it is, at the end of the day, a case of what the child can do on the floor the next question is why then should anyone want to pay for such a certificate given that they come in at £85 each?

Simply to have a visual of the accomplishment to others who do not see her train. It is a placemark in a time of her life. A pinnacle if you will.
If the money is an issue, I get it. But don't let a perception of value, especially from other people, taint the results of her hard work.

I have said this many, many times; Kukkiwon certification only have superior value for people who travel/move around a lot or for those who are really into the WT competition circuit. Beyond that, it is no better or worse than a certificate from any other quality school/system.

At the end of the day, it is all about the work done on the training floor.

 

[HighKick]

GM Park isn't the president of World Taekwondo, he is the president of the World Taekwondo Chung Do Kwan Federation. if it is a World CDK certificate with GM Park's signature on it, then it will likely be recognized by other kwans in S. Korea and Kukkiwon given that GM Park's Chung Do Kwan supports kukkiwon. So yes, it is internationally recognized as "legitimate".

However, that doesn't mean that any school will automatically recognize her rank. A lot of Schools have their own standards and don't really care about what a piece of paper says, but would rather you get out on the floor and show them what you can do. This way is much easier to place new or visiting students to make sure they are getting the training they need to improve.

Basically, it's a cool thing to have and given GM Park's age and recent health issues WCDK certificates with his signature on it will likely be a thing of the past soon.

Great point. My last MKD certificate was signed and personally handed to me by GM Jae Kyu Chon just before his death. That carries a ton of weight with me.

 

[AyeshaT]

Simply to have a visual of the accomplishment to others who do not see her train. It is a placemark in a time of her life. A pinnacle if you will.
If the money is an issue, I get it. But don't let a perception of value, especially from other people, taint the results of her hard work.

I have said this many, many times; Kukkiwon certification only have superior value for people who travel/move around a lot or for those who are really into the WT competition circuit. Beyond that, it is no better or worse than a certificate from any other quality school/system.

At the end of the day, it is all about the work done on the training floor.

Our child commenced practising Taekwondo from around her 6th birthday in late 2018. She made progress through the grading system in place even through Covid where instruction and assessment was conducted online via Zoom. And took her 2nd Dan black belt grading in December of last year, aged 11. We like to think her achievements were a reflection of her effort and skills etc etc.

Getting back to transferability of certification there have been 4 potential reasons for seeking an answer to the posted question.

1) Our child has a strong connection to the Philippines. She may like to spend time there some day when she is an adult or even settle there. And of course join a local club there.

2) There is some possibility that she might wish to take qualifications in Physical Education and recognition of her accomplishments in Taekwondo might well be a consideration or part and parcel of any course application along that pathway.

3) One already mentioned which was change of club.

4) She may wish to apply to the Police force or similar.


So all 4 are valid reasons for posing the question. And yes, travel might be a consideration in the longer term.

 

[HighKick]

Our child commenced practising Taekwondo from around her 6th birthday in late 2018. She made progress through the grading system in place even through Covid where instruction and assessment was conducted online via Zoom. And took her 2nd Dan black belt grading in December of last year, aged 11. We like to think her achievements were a reflection of her effort and skills etc etc.

Getting back to transferability of certification there have been 4 potential reasons for seeking an answer to the posted question.

1) Our child has a strong connection to the Philippines. She may like to spend time there some day when she is an adult or even settle there. And of course join a local club there.

2) There is some possibility that she might wish to take qualifications in Physical Education and recognition of her accomplishments in Taekwondo might well be a consideration or part and parcel of any course application along that pathway.

3) One already mentioned which was change of club.

4) She may wish to apply to the Police force or similar.


So all 4 are valid reasons for posing the question. And yes, travel might be a consideration in the longer term.

I think I understand your query.

1.) I am not at all familiar with Tae Kwon Do politics in the Philippines but here is the contact info for the current WT General Secretary: WT Philippines

2.) I suggest you research the Kukkiwon. This is the governing body for 'organized' or 'official' TKD in Korea and throughout the world with National Associations in nearly every country. World Taekwondo is an equal/near equal body within the same governmental entity (yes, it gets confusing). In a nutshell, World Taekwondo (WT), is responsible for the sport side and Olympic endeavors of TKD. Kukkiwon is responsible for everything else, including black belt promotions. To make things more confusing, you will see the old acronym WTF stilled used frequently. The 'F' was dropped around 15-years ago for obvious reasons.
Again, I am not familiar with the accreditation process for being a physical education teacher, but I can certainly see where an accredited, traceable certification would carry weight. For this I strongly suggest you discuss getting her blacks belt certificate(s) via Kukkiwon. This may require her to change schools to accomplish. A conversation you would need to have with her current instructor. Be very aware that there are a LOT of knockoff certificates floated around from schools all over the world. To find out if a school is associated with KKW/WT, you can do a school query on the Kukkiwon or Tcon websites. Membership is required for the Tcon site. Once again, it can get confusing.

3.) Changing schools can be messy sometimes, but overall I find most schools look at a persons history and how similar it is to the new schools curriculum. This largely involves the form set(s) used and sparring rules. That said, it is very, very common for any instructor to add their own material to their curriculum. This is were nearly every school is unique. A very good thing IMHO. Yes, there are some 'lemming' schools that follow a purely WT/KKW curriculum, but I can tell you without exception, it is an incomplete curriculum intended to be augmented by the local school/system. There are more than a few reasons for this that would take too long to explain in my already long post.
Usually, a new school will keep a transfer student at their current rank until they catch on any new or different curriculum or technical differences and then continue down the normal promotional process.

4.) I am former LEO. Martial arts experience alone May carry a small amount of weight. But if it is purely as a student (never as an instructor or school owner), I would not expect a great deal from it. An interview may flesh out any experiential value. Military experience, education specific experience, and relationships swing a bigger hammer. I do not say this to dissuade, but as a general rule, law enforcement officials know little to nothing about the martial arts so they have no way to gauge a persons experience and subsequent value relative to a LEO. Does it look good on a resume? Usually, but again, the proof is in the pudding and that is not something that is easily covered in an interview or job application unless there are some major benchmarks to discuss.

Circling back to question #2, based on your intent I feel your best bet is do talk with her current instructor, see if the current school is part of Kukkiwon, and get Official Kukkiwon certificate(s). That said, in no way does having a KKW certificate automatically make her training any better or worse. She could have received elite level training, far better than the average KKW/WT school, or far worse. I just have no way of knowing.

I wish you and your daughter the best going forward.

 

[AyeshaT]

I think I understand your query.

1.) I am not at all familiar with Tae Kwon Do politics in the Philippines but here is the contact info for the current WT General Secretary: WT Philippines

2.) I suggest you research the Kukkiwon. This is the governing body for 'organized' or 'official' TKD in Korea and throughout the world with National Associations in nearly every country. World Taekwondo is an equal/near equal body within the same governmental entity (yes, it gets confusing). In a nutshell, World Taekwondo (WT), is responsible for the sport side and Olympic endeavors of TKD. Kukkiwon is responsible for everything else, including black belt promotions. To make things more confusing, you will see the old acronym WTF stilled used frequently. The 'F' was dropped around 15-years ago for obvious reasons.
Again, I am not familiar with the accreditation process for being a physical education teacher, but I can certainly see where an accredited, traceable certification would carry weight. For this I strongly suggest you discuss getting her blacks belt certificate(s) via Kukkiwon. This may require her to change schools to accomplish. A conversation you would need to have with her current instructor. Be very aware that there are a LOT of knockoff certificates floated around from schools all over the world. To find out if a school is associated with KKW/WT, you can do a school query on the Kukkiwon or Tcon websites. Membership is required for the Tcon site. Once again, it can get confusing.

3.) Changing schools can be messy sometimes, but overall I find most schools look at a persons history and how similar it is to the new schools curriculum. This largely involves the form set(s) used and sparring rules. That said, it is very, very common for any instructor to add their own material to their curriculum. This is were nearly every school is unique. A very good thing IMHO. Yes, there are some 'lemming' schools that follow a purely WT/KKW curriculum, but I can tell you without exception, it is an incomplete curriculum intended to be augmented by the local school/system. There are more than a few reasons for this that would take too long to explain in my already long post.
Usually, a new school will keep a transfer student at their current rank until they catch on any new or different curriculum or technical differences and then continue down the normal promotional process.

4.) I am former LEO. Martial arts experience alone May carry a small amount of weight. But if it is purely as a student (never as an instructor or school owner), I would not expect a great deal from it. An interview may flesh out any experiential value. Military experience, education specific experience, and relationships swing a bigger hammer. I do not say this to dissuade, but as a general rule, law enforcement officials know little to nothing about the martial arts so they have no way to gauge a persons experience and subsequent value relative to a LEO. Does it look good on a resume? Usually, but again, the proof is in the pudding and that is not something that is easily covered in an interview or job application unless there are some major benchmarks to discuss.

Circling back to question #2, based on your intent I feel your best bet is do talk with her current instructor, see if the current school is part of Kukkiwon, and get Official Kukkiwon certificate(s). That said, in no way does having a KKW certificate automatically make her training any better or worse. She could have received elite level training, far better than the average KKW/WT school, or far worse. I just have no way of knowing.

I wish you and your daughter the best going forward.

I owe you a debt of thanks for such a well considered and thorough answer.

We were not offered a Kukkiwon certificate at the time and at the time we were unaware of the difference. We have changed schools now and the scope to “upgrade” to a Kukkiwon certificate is potentially there at the new club.

On behalf of our kid, many thanks.