Can knife fights be won by overpowering your opponent? By gradually moving knife closer until it pierces?Can disarms be done with brute strength too?

Bullsherdog

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Saving Private Ryan's infamous knife fight scene has a German soldier win the clinch fight simply because he overpowers the Ranger guy and with terrifying bloodthirsty patience he simply waits for the knife to slowly push through until it enters through the Ranger's chest. And I must add the Ranger actually even brutally bites the German soldier so hard during the clinch blood splatters from his hand but he still ultimately manages to put the knife through with his horrifying endurance and strength.

However a fact about this scene that everyone forgets is.......... The whole reason the German soldier was able to stab the Ranger in the first place was because it was the Ranger who pulled out the knife and tried to stab the German. During the groundfight the German while atop him was so strong he manages to let go of one of his hands in the clinch and quickly use it to disarm the knife hand of the Ranger (which the Nazi was holding rather easily like a strong man with his left hand). Basically he was like a strongman who can make you tap out simply by squeezing your arm. Not lying watch the scene on Youtube. The Ranger's knife hand was literally stuck frozen and Nazi guy was also overpowering his empty arm so much that he didn't need to retaliate when he let go of his right hand to literally snatch the knife away from the Ranger's other hand like stealing baby from a candy.

I am curious in real life knife fights can be decided this way with imply having more endurance and strength and by sheer overpowering?
 

Blindside

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Uh, yes. Also the German's technique was terrible, there is much easier way to do what he did that doesn't require straight muscle strength, however in my class we do call that technique the "Saving Private Ryan."
 

Buka

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Anything can happen in a fight, anything can happen in a knife fight. And, yes, brute strength is it's own particular form of threat, but like most things, it depends.

I've done a lot of knife fight training, including grappling while drawing blades. (which is a trip)

Standing, we even used to hold sort of a tournament. Fifteen, twenty guys, (all knife students) each with a training blade, everybody throws in ten or twenty bucks, then do like a random straight bracket and go at it. Lose and you're out. No judging, everyone knew when they were dead, or slashed someplace where they'd bleed out in less than a minute. After that minute he'd drop out.

Once in a while someone would yell out, "Did he get me?" and others would yell, "dead meat" or something similarly silly and the man would drop himself out.

When we would do it for money, everybody trained and fought more alert, se we did it a lot. Sometimes we'd do it several times a session. Never a bad thing when you leave a training session with a couple hundred extra bucks in your pocket. It kept you sharp, pun absolutely intended.
 

Dirty Dog

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Trained with a guy once who was very good with a knife, he told me the something his teacher told him. "Understand if you are in a knife fight, you will get cut."
I think if you changed it to "probably" it would be more accurate. I've had a knife pulled on me with intent three times. Two of those I came out without any injury.
I do think you have to accept the strong possibility that you will get cut, but it's by no means a certainty.
 

Buka

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Trained with a guy once who was very good with a knife, he told me the something his teacher told him. "Understand if you are in a knife fight, you will get cut."
I look at it as three possible outcomes.

You get cut/stabbed and he doesnt.

He gets cut/stabbed and you dont.

You both get cut/stabbed.

So.youre odds aint that great from the git go. But this really depends on how much the element of surprise is involved. For me, Im not trying to stab you at all, Im slashing your knife arm/hands. Been practicing that for eighteen years now. I do more knife training now than fight training.

When I first became a cop we had a video that was shown to new recruits as part of academy training. It was called "Edged Weapons. Ninety percent of it was film of blade encounters, including one of a man, obviously in a mental health crises, slowly carving himself up. It was really nasty.

They stopped showing that film some time ago, too many recruits were getting sick or upset by it. Heaven forbid, we can't have that.
 

Xue Sheng

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I look at it as three possible outcomes.

You get cut/stabbed and he doesnt.

He gets cut/stabbed and you dont.

You both get cut/stabbed.

So.youre odds aint that great from the git go. But this really depends on how much the element of surprise is involved. For me, Im not trying to stab you at all, Im slashing your knife arm/hands. Been practicing that for eighteen years now. I do more knife training now than fight training.

When I first became a cop we had a video that was shown to new recruits as part of academy training. It was called "Edged Weapons. Ninety percent of it was film of blade encounters, including one of a man, obviously in a mental health crises, slowly carving himself up. It was really nasty.

They stopped showing that film some time ago, too many recruits were getting sick or upset by it. Heaven forbid, we can't have that.
I think that was the point he was trying to make, just accept the fact that you're going to get cut, so you don't freak out when you do. He alos said his teacher wanted them to know that it was a big possibility so he gave them sharpie markers and had them use them like knives to fight. He said he was absolutely amazed at how many sharpie marks he had on himself and the other guy had on him.

As for not showing the film to new recruits, I fully understand, they certainly will not see anything disturbing when they get out on patrol would they
 

dvcochran

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Uh, yes. Also the German's technique was terrible, there is much easier way to do what he did that doesn't require straight muscle strength, however in my class we do call that technique the "Saving Private Ryan."
Love the name you use for the technique.
 

dvcochran

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Saving Private Ryan's infamous knife fight scene has a German soldier win the clinch fight simply because he overpowers the Ranger guy and with terrifying bloodthirsty patience he simply waits for the knife to slowly push through until it enters through the Ranger's chest. And I must add the Ranger actually even brutally bites the German soldier so hard during the clinch blood splatters from his hand but he still ultimately manages to put the knife through with his horrifying endurance and strength.

However a fact about this scene that everyone forgets is.......... The whole reason the German soldier was able to stab the Ranger in the first place was because it was the Ranger who pulled out the knife and tried to stab the German. During the groundfight the German while atop him was so strong he manages to let go of one of his hands in the clinch and quickly use it to disarm the knife hand of the Ranger (which the Nazi was holding rather easily like a strong man with his left hand). Basically he was like a strongman who can make you tap out simply by squeezing your arm. Not lying watch the scene on Youtube. The Ranger's knife hand was literally stuck frozen and Nazi guy was also overpowering his empty arm so much that he didn't need to retaliate when he let go of his right hand to literally snatch the knife away from the Ranger's other hand like stealing baby from a candy.

I am curious in real life knife fights can be decided this way with imply having more endurance and strength and by sheer overpowering?
Absolutely. Especially in the case of average skill fighters, which is the norm I would say.
Strength, just like speed can and will kill.

Hard to describe but there is a high amount of mental fortitude required in a fight like the one in the movie. I believe the weaker person mentally will lose more often than the stronger person physically will.
 

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Technique can overcome brute force. Brute force can overcome technique. And.......a kick to the groin IS a game changer
 

jmf552

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Travis Roesler did an extensive study of knife defenses. He studied all the knife defenses he could find taught in various different arts. BTW, he is eclectic, so he represents no traditional style, although he does have a background in boxing and BJJ and has fought in MMA. Then he took all those knife defense techniques back to his school and drilled them with his senior students, but they resisted the defenses like a real attacker would. Most of the defenses he learned didn't work. Some were just ridiculously bad when pressure tested. But he did find a few that worked and he put out a video series on it. I think it is pretty good.

The basic strategy seems to be:
1. Deflect the knife, no matter what, even if it is only for a second. You may get cut, but don't get stabbed or slashed across an area with a lot of blood vessels near the skin.
2. Immediately go on the attack decisively and take the guy out with your first strike to some critical target. Failing that, your second strike.

Also, knife disarms are basically BS. They will get you killed. BTW, the Saving Private Ryan guy could have rolled that guy off any number of ways if he knew basic grappling.
 

jmf552

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What does it exactly mean?
What was his methodology?
What was his laboratory/experiments?

Everybody can say "I have studied knife defence".
Look it up. I am not going to go into research methodology in forum post. I understand research and I found what he did thorough and credible.
 
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