Breaking in TSD

[JT_the_Ninja]

I had to go back to 2005 to find a thread dedicated to breaking/kyok pa, and it was more of a specific one, so here's a general TSD breaking thread.

I've always found breaking one of the more satisfying parts of training (perhaps belying a bit of a destructive tendency, but that's beside the point), from the first time I had to break at my 9th to 8th gup test. It's the event at tournaments that I've been able to place first in consistently, and just sort of one of those things I really enjoy doing.

So what are all yinz's experiences with breaking? What are your school's/federation's requirements (if any)?

 

[Makalakumu]

I'm not a fan. Standing still, focusing and delivering one powerful strike isn't something we train in the dojo very much. I train all of my basics on pads or with partners while we are moving in order to get a better sense of a fight. Still, I do require my students to break. I've parred down the requirements. Green belts practice breaking boards. Red belts get to break bricks. I'll set up the situation depending on the student's ability.

Looking backward, I had to do some crazy breaks when I was moving up through the ranks. For my red belt ranks, I broke several stacked bricks, I jumped over people and tables to break with flying side kicks. At black belt, I was breaking multiple boards with jump spinning techniques at head level or above. For second and third dan, I was breaking multiple station boards in the air before hitting the ground.

All of this took a lot of time to train and prepare for and there was a lot of things that I could have been using that time to do...for example, learning how to fall and be thrown.

 

[JT_the_Ninja]

I agree, standing still for one break isn't all that exciting. Of course, when we do it, especially at tournaments, it's a 3-station break, where you are able to get creative in linking them together. It teaches focus, precision, and follow-through. Definitely not a replacement for anything else in the curriculum, but also definitely a good thing to practice.

 

[DennisBreene]

I guess I'm showing my age again. We didn't train for breaking. We broke at demonstrations and at testing time and generally we were told what technique to use at the time and had not practiced them. (With the exception of some complex aerial breaks that were planned for demo). Our Master instructor explained that the breaking was only to demonstrate to us that our techniques worked. They were not an end un to themselves.

 

[Makalakumu]

When I was moving up through the gup ranks, I trained for the breaks before hand because they were very challenging and rigorous. For example, for my black belt test, I needed to break three boards at six feet high with a jump spinning side kick. I had to perform a speed break with a jump spinning hook kick at seven feet. I also had to perform a station break with four stations, two boards at a station, in less than five seconds. These breaks took a lot of practice and some specialized training in order to perform. For example, the jumping skill to get up that high basically required me to get into the gym and work on exercises that would improve my explosive power. I wasn't getting any better by just doing the techniques, so I started doing power cleans and box jumps.

At my BB test, I broke everything put in front of me, but ended up getting choked out while grappling. I look back at the time training for those breaks and I'm glad that I did it, but I can definitely see how I could have used it to prepare in other MA areas that were more practical.

 

[OldKarateGuy]

Personally, I don't really care for breaking. It always makes me nervous when my students have to break for a dan test. I worry about injuries, and I think that our system rewards unrealistic and showy breaks that have nothing to do at all with real karate technique. I will say that at usually a 3rd dan test level, students no longer get to set up their own breaks, but instead, turn around and confront a series of held boards, which they have to step up and hammer. So, better. But I question the value of showboat breaks that are useless for a genuine confrontation. Maybe it's like so-called creativity competitions. We should have something separate, creative breaking that has nothing to do with martial arts. Breaking is very popular, especially among the uninitiated. I just don't like it. But it's just an opinion, and has more to do with the implementation that the theory. Standardize breaks to simple breaks, and maybe it would be better. But we still risk injuring students for what? Some styles never use or allow breaks, and it doesn't seem to hurt them.

 

[JT_the_Ninja]

I will agree that the showy breaks aren't my favorites. You will never need to jump seven feet in the air to deliver a jump spinning back wheel kick, nor will a somersault into a split with a hammerfist ever be useful (unless you're in a movie, I suppose). That's why I favor the straightforward type of breaks. My standards are ridgehand strikes, backhand knifehand strikes, elbow strikes, etc. I used to do a flying side kick over three people bent at the waist (stopped doing so because often there just weren't enough people handy at tournaments, since we also have to hold boards for each other), but that's just all about bringing up your feet, not really getting any higher than normal.

The "showiest" I go, I guess, is my 360° jump roundhouse kick, which I've been doing since 2008 (with two boards since 2009). Since I deliver it with my instep, I have purposefully trained to toughen up my foot so there's no real danger of injury. That I guess is another really good aspect of training for breaking; you have to condition yourself to be able to deliver the techniques, especially if you're going for more than one board at a time (our boards are 12"x9"x1"). Really, you should be conditioning for impact anyway, because a punch is only good so long as you hurt the opponent more than yourself, and breaking is just an opportunity to display that, along with showing good technique and power.

It's also really good for overcoming fear. One of the things 10th/9th gups have to learn before they do their first break is that just hitting the board will do no good: you have to go through it. If you're afraid of hurting yourself and pull back, you'll hurt yourself. If you go through with it with confidence, you almost never will. []

 

[Makalakumu]

It's also really good for overcoming fear. One of the things 10th/9th gups have to learn before they do their first break is that just hitting the board will do no good: you have to go through it. If you're afraid of hurting yourself and pull back, you'll hurt yourself. If you go through with it with confidence, you almost never will. []

And this is why I don't ditch it entirely. I do think that for gups, this provides a mental challenge that is worth meeting.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Breaking teaches students to deliver power properly. It requires us to be conditioned to avoid self-harm. It requires us to learn to focus. It requires us to use good technique.

And it's fun.

[video]UU4d4yQwJT13A6n5bXzVNx3Q[/video]

 

[reeskm]

It's pretty much fundamental in my opinion.

Yes, it may not be the most realistic skill if you look at it from a very limited point of view. However, besides the other benefits (like confidence) and delivering power, I believe it also develops:
1) speed
2) accuracy
3) realistic distancing for full power (especially for kicks)
4) toughens feet and hands
5) allows student to find out favorite technique and encourages them to practice non favorite ones and still be effective
6) competition increases learning and desire amongst students to progress
7) we require students bow, announce technique and show finesse - this ads to development of discipline and focus under pressure

It's pretty much an essential skill from my point of view. I believe, just like other traditional training methods, rounds out a martial artist and is a critical teaching tool if taught and used properly.

 

[ride57]

Hi, long time no posting for me. Since I just started TSD 2 months ago (and started restarted IP training for breaks) I did a few breaks. The first couple vids I did the camera (phone) wasn't in a good position. I found that setting up a stepladder gave a better position for the camera.

 

[JT_the_Ninja]

Tang soo! Nice breaks!

In related news: We just had a gup test last Thursday, and there were several 4th dans, 2nd dans, and 1st dans there to help out (sometimes it's like herding cats). CJN C. S. Kim was also there to preside. As he often does, CJN had us also do basics and forms alongside the testers (I think he likes to keep us on our toes to make sure we've been practicing). Midway through the test, he also had us do our highest forms as well. So he had the 4th dans do sip sam hyung (also called seishan?) and then lo hai. As we were finishing, I saw CJN turn to my instructor and ask my name (which always portends fun). So then he asked me if I could do the breaks in lo hai. I was only going to say yes, although since I'm left-handed I don't really break with my right hand.

And of course although the forehead break was just me picking up a board at that point in the form and holding it for myself (piece of cake, as I'd done it before), he had initially set up the downward punch with three boards. Almost made it, too. After two tries, he reduced it to two boards, which I did manage to break (afterwards the holders said they hadn't been holding it well, and that it was too high up, etc., but I'm just gonna go with it being my fault for not training my right hand enough).

Also didn't help that, since I was going to do the forehead break, I took off my glasses to do the form.

Anyway, now I guess I have motivation to work on my right side some more. []

 

[reeskm]

JT_the_Ninja:
What an honour to have KJN Kim at your test! Yeah, I think testing the instructors that were there is common in TSD. My masters always do the same thing. You can pretty much expect to do parts of the test with your students.

Also cool to see he asked you incorporated the breaks into your LoHai hyung. That's the way it's done!
Most difficult part is to start that hyung and then end up in the perfect position for a station break for the downward punch. Most do only a single board to prove they can get to that position in the first place! Nice work going with 3.