Boxing question.

Taiji Rebel

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Mixing boxing with the FMA’s is like magic! They compliment each other so well! Boxing is kinda where eskrima hands end up. Kinda sorta.
Dan Inosanto suggested the FMA had a direct influence on the evolution of the hand position in western boxing 🥊
 

Oily Dragon

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Dan Inosanto suggested the FMA had a direct influence on the evolution of the hand position in western boxing 🥊
I'm not a fan of the blanket term "western boxing" unless you mean the modern rule set, but the hand positions and punching mechanics in it are found all over traditional Asian arts, so I doubt the Philippines has a majority influence. I'm sure exposure to escrima influenced someone at some point, but I'd need to see a historical source to believe Dan here.

Generally, the "this country (name one) invented this technique" thing is a fallacy, IMHO, and it's common for big name teachers like Dan (whose lineage I am technically part of) to hype up their particular favorite country in a sort of "king of the hill" history of martial arts.
 

Rich Parsons

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I'm not a fan of the blanket term "western boxing" unless you mean the modern rule set, but the hand positions and punching mechanics in it are found all over traditional Asian arts, so I doubt the Philippines has a majority influence. I'm sure exposure to escrima influenced someone at some point, but I'd need to see a historical source to believe Dan here.

Generally, the "this country (name one) invented this technique" thing is a fallacy, IMHO, and it's common for big name teachers like Dan (whose lineage I am technically part of) to hype up their particular favorite country in a sort of "king of the hill" history of martial arts.
Hi Oily Dragon,

I have nothing to do with Dan Inosanto's org or training.
The story ( I do not have direct proof I can quote ) is that during the Spanish American War in 1898-1900 the US captures the PI from the Spanish.
.
Out of that was the exposure of to FMA and how Naval Boxing changes because of it.
And from the Navy it is inferred to have influence the sport as a whole.
.
I am not arguing for nor against. Just proving the data / story / ... , .
 

Taiji Rebel

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Boxing has a long, long history. Over time it has developed and evolved with the addition and subtraction of different techniques and rules.

I remember Dan Inosanto suggesting that FMA had a big influence on the art of boxing. This may have an element of truth to it, but if you look at poses of people like John L. Sullivan and other boxers of that era you will see similarities to the early karate guys. Go back further into the history of bare-knuckle fighting and you will discover they had takedowns, gouges, kicking and headbutts alongside the punching techniques - it was more like the original concept of the UFC with less rules :D

“UFC ain’t nothing new. They started with ultimate fighting and then they civilized it and made it into boxing. All UFC is doing is taking 200 years of rules and throwing them out the window” – Don King
 

drewtoby

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I echo what everyone else has said. One additional point to be aware of is the dynamics of boxing bare handed vs with gloves or wraps. If you plan to use boxing in a self defense scenario, you will likely be bare handed. I could be wrong, but some barehand conditioning may be wise, along with knowledge of targets (i.e. avoiding top of skull or forehead) to avoid hand injury (not a boxer, not sure how gloves change things).

Welcome to the forums! What were some "eastern" arts you were looking into / interested in?
 

Oily Dragon

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Hi Oily Dragon,

I have nothing to do with Dan Inosanto's org or training.
The story ( I do not have direct proof I can quote ) is that during the Spanish American War in 1898-1900 the US captures the PI from the Spanish.
.
Out of that was the exposure of to FMA and how Naval Boxing changes because of it.
And from the Navy it is inferred to have influence the sport as a whole.
.
I am not arguing for nor against. Just proving the data / story / ... , .
I mean, it makes sense because all forms of combat are borrowed from ancient times, just like sailing arts. So I have no doubt the British and American Navies picked up a lot over the years from Asia. Spain kind of lost out if you ask me...their language is all over the Filipino arts, but they are long kicked out. They lost the game of empire.

This is also a kind of trope now. The US/British military guy learning and training to fight overseas is at the core of everything from The Karate Kid to Bloodsport. But I believe it, which I why I hate the term "western boxing". They don't call tea time "western tea time", after all.

"Plebe boxing" is what the US army teaches young officer cadets, and it's based on 240+ years of fisticuffs.
 

Taiji Rebel

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I mean, it makes sense because all forms of combat are borrowed from ancient times, just like sailing arts. So I have no doubt the British and American Navies picked up a lot over the years from Asia. Spain kind of lost out if you ask me...their language is all over the Filipino arts, but they are long kicked out. They lost the game of empire.

This is also a kind of trope now. The US/British military guy learning and training to fight overseas is at the core of everything from The Karate Kid to Bloodsport. But I believe it, which I why I hate the term "western boxing". They don't call tea time "western tea time", after all.

"Plebe boxing" is what the US army teaches young officer cadets, and it's based on 240+ years of fisticuffs.
If you're interested in looking into the history of boxing in the military then the following book is a good one to own

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punisher73

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Hi Oily Dragon,

I have nothing to do with Dan Inosanto's org or training.
The story ( I do not have direct proof I can quote ) is that during the Spanish American War in 1898-1900 the US captures the PI from the Spanish.
.
Out of that was the exposure of to FMA and how Naval Boxing changes because of it.
And from the Navy it is inferred to have influence the sport as a whole.
.
I am not arguing for nor against. Just proving the data / story / ... , .
Just adding on to more of the details about the story that I have also heard.

Basically, because the Filipino people were a "knife culture" their martial arts reflected that for their empty hand. Holding your hand(s) out in an extended guard with a knife was a sure way to get cut (the assumption being that the posed pictures of old-time boxers with their hands out was how they actually fought). They adopted their knife fighting type of guard to their boxing, which was incorporated into the higher "modern" boxing guard.

I have tried to research this and have never come across this in any historical documents/manuals. This includes showing Filipino boxers actually using this type of guard in contrast to other boxers of the time. At this point, it is just an urban legend.
 
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