Ban Ultimate Fighting as well as Boxing...

[TheOriginalName]

Well i know that in Australia there are pushes to have smoking banned.
There are also pushes to reduce the public profile of fast food - which is the first step towards having it banned.
I think there is even a group pushing to have alcohol banned.....but really, what chance to they have!!

I would personally never want to see a demolition man type world it is variety and choice that make life worth living.... but that said, doesn't society have the obligation to protect it's citizens?

Even if this attempted ban of boxing and MMA goes away we will be faced with the same problem on another front - tis the fine art of drawing the line.

 

[meth18au]

Society being who? The government? Have the power to take away choice- no matter if it is 'good' or 'bad'?

That's where the danger would lie in drawing a line of this sort. Fighters know well the risks, governing bodies and the standard of care for fighters is much higher than in the past. Nobody forces them. It is their choice.

And in Oz- I'm fairly sure that is only a ban on smoking in public places? You still have the choice to buy cigarettes and smoke them in 'non-public' places. The logic behind that is that person A chooses to smoke (and cause harm to oneself), yet person B suffers (from passive smoke) and not by their own choice. Which I think is a totally different take on the issue. Oh- and alcohol- that'll never be banned in the land down under

 

[Odin]

Doctors that write these reports on violent sports usually have never actually seen them, they are merely told what goes on in one via a very biase description...

usually based on the words


Cage
No rules
Blood
Martial arts

 

[Tez3]

I heard a good comeback the other day when we were talking about the 'human cock fighting' phrase, someone said why don't they call the 400m 'human greyhound racing then?'

MMA has received a lot of media attention here because of the UFC in London. We had the same 'feeding frenzy' when another fight night was put on in Manchester a while back. Mike Tyson and a few high profile soccer players were there, we got all the 'barbaric' kicking in the head and killing stuff before the fights. After the show the papers were printing complaints from people who said how boring it was, how people had walked out after booing the 'cuddling' and that it was all a damp sqib! People who knew MMA said it was a good night, with good technical fights and it was about par for most promotions.

 

[mini_dez]

Cage
No rules
Blood
Martial arts

Holy crap! Someone ought to ban this savagery!

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

I heard a good comeback the other day when we were talking about the 'human cock fighting' phrase, someone said why don't they call the 400m 'human greyhound racing then?'

MMA has received a lot of media attention here because of the UFC in London. We had the same 'feeding frenzy' when another fight night was put on in Manchester a while back. Mike Tyson and a few high profile soccer players were there, we got all the 'barbaric' kicking in the head and killing stuff before the fights. After the show the papers were printing complaints from people who said how boring it was, how people had walked out after booing the 'cuddling' and that it was all a damp sqib! People who knew MMA said it was a good night, with good technical fights and it was about par for most promotions.

This is classic.

 

[CoryKS]

Doctors that write these reports on violent sports usually have never actually seen them, they are merely told what goes on in one via a very biase description...

usually based on the words


Cage
No rules
Blood
Martial arts

All we want is life beyond Thunderdome.

 

[Freestyler777]

I think banning these types of events will only make it go underground and therefore, less safe and organized. Boxing, kickboxing and MMA are largely low-brow sporting events, but that is human nature. At least that when it is legal, there is some control over the potential harm that can happen.

Mark Twain said, "the only way to get rid of desire, is to give in to it."

Making these fight-sports illegal only makes it go underground, it doesn't dissappear, because man's base nature hasn't changed in many millenia.

 

[Tez3]

I think banning these types of events will only make it go underground and therefore, less safe and organized. Boxing, kickboxing and MMA are largely low-brow sporting events, but that is human nature. At least that when it is legal, there is some control over the potential harm that can happen.

Mark Twain said, "the only way to get rid of desire, is to give in to it."

Making these fight-sports illegal only makes it go underground, it doesn't dissappear, because man's base nature hasn't changed in many millenia.

Oh dear no! On an MMA forum I use we had a thread asking what everyone did for a living, guess what? there are many professional and blue collar workers who do MMA! I would argue that for kickboxing too.Boxing I know little about but it's appeal is across the social scale. We have doctors, police officers, social workers, lecturers, IT specialists, teachers, firemen, para medics, military personnel, nurses, officer workers etc who do MMA. There a few doormen but here you have to be qualified to do that job. The crowds I've seen at shows are knowledgeable and getting more so. This is going to be a mainstream sport, people are realising that it is very technical and entertaining. We've got out of the 'street fighting' element of it by having shows that are professionally run and by countering the allegations of barbarity with reasoned logical arguments.

We have fighters like Rosi Sexton (Phd in mathematics) being interviewed in mainstream newspapers, Mike Bisping has been the focus of a lot of media attention which is now going on the sports pages rather than the editorials calling for the banning of the sport.

A lot depends on how we as participants in the sports view it and publicise it, we are doing everything we can to make people understand the nature of the sport. All the promoters have changed their posters and flyers to reflect the sport as a sport, gone are the images of blood and blackeyes and slogans like last man standing wins etc. Now they are every bit as professional as the top sporting events publicity.It's an uphill struggle admittedly, but we are determined to get to the top!

 

[Freestyler777]

'Low Brow' may have been a bit extreme. But there are loftier human activities, like art, philosophy, and music. However, I do like K-1 and muay thai, so maybe I am low brow too!

 

[Tez3]

'Low Brow' may have been a bit extreme. But there are loftier human activities, like art, philosophy, and music. However, I do like K-1 and muay thai, so maybe I am low brow too!

I thnk you underestimate the amount of violence in these activities lol! Seriously, these can all produce violent reactions! In philosophy people have been put to death for having views that didn't coincide with the norm! Art is full of violence see Picasso's Geurnica and a lot of artists lives are colourful to say the least. In music, get on the wrong side of the audience at La Scala Milan you'll know about it. Opera fans in some places have been known to burn opera houses down. Not to mention the amount of violence in operas and some ballets. makes MMA seem quite tame really! Look at Shakespeare's plays, incredible violence in Coriolanus!

 

[meth18au]

Funny that we've discussed this issue in this thread over the past week or so. Because there is now a 'push' by our local media in Western Australia to ban 'cage fighting'. This is in reference to an upcoming MMA bout later in the year in our state. The issue has now become politicized, it has been on news and in the papers.


Here's some links:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/WA-govt-urged-to-stop-cage-fight/2007/09/19/1189881581712.html

http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21598,22444088-2761,00.html


How stupid. Some of the stuff that has been said is so annoying, and this hype that our media creates by [SIZE=-1]over-sensualizing apparent issues really works. I've was asking my sister if she would like to attend the upcoming event (as we like to go watch fights together), and it caused an uproar with other family members. The fact that I wanted to go and see this, and bring my sister along to such a 'barbaric' event, it just didn't go down well. However before this push by the media, I guarantee such a proposal would have gone either unnoticed, or very little attention would have been paid to it. Hell- I might have even been able to con one of the family members whom were so negative into going. And they probably would have enjoyed the fights!!!


Stupid media- they can have such influence on so many people .Here's to hoping this promotion goes forward, and that they will be continued to allowed to do so. Otherwise I may have to move state....




[/SIZE]

 

[jeepee]

Being a martial arts practitioner AND a soon-to-be Neuropsychologist (1 or 2 years 'till I'm done with this @#!@X Ph.D.!), I think that the best way to promote safety in combat sports would be to explain what are the real risks.

First, any person who has common sense knows that you can't ban sports as big as boxing or MMA fighting, and I think that we all agree with this for obvious reasons that I won't repeat here. So, what would I tell to someone who wants to start "fighting in cages"? -You are obviously more at risk of getting brain injuries from competing in these types of fight, than playing tennis for example. Brain injury symptoms can be numerous such as continuous headaches, memory lost, concentration difficulties, etc. Some can be short-lasting (1-7 days) but others might also be long-lasting (months and even years). Also, multiple concussions (as light as they may be; a good example is Homer Simpson's numerous head injuries ) can aggravate these symptoms. A good way to prevent this would be to get proper evaluation from health professionals as soon as you can, right after your head injuries.

However, all that is said here is applicable to all contact sports such as football, kickboxing, not only MMA! I think that health professionals should promote health by giving information and advices, but not by trying to play legislators. People are and will always be free to do what they want with their own lives, as long as they know the risks involved.

 

[meth18au]

However, all that is said here is applicable to all contact sports such as football, kickboxing, not only MMA! I think that health professionals should promote health by giving information and advices, but not by trying to play legislators. People are and will always be free to do what they want with their own lives, as long as they know the risks involved.

Well said!!! Long live freedom!!!

 

[Tez3]

I was reading today about the attempts to stop the Australian show.

What is overlooked is that many fight MMA amateur rules where there are no head shots whatsoever. I enjoy kickboxing but the doctors haven't mentioned that yet, that may even be more violent than MMA (depending on what rules are used) MT allows elbows which can be devastrating in the damage they cause. Many MMA promoters don't allow elbow strikes for that reason. We don't allow downward elbow strikes at all, they are dangerus and can be very nasty.

 

[FieldDiscipline]

On this subject, have you had any run-ins with the new coaching certification scheme yet Tez? Do you know what plans the government has for MMA?

 

[Tez3]

On this subject, have you had any run-ins with the new coaching certification scheme yet Tez? Do you know what plans the government has for MMA?

We haven't heard anything at all. The MMA scene is complicated due to the fact there is no regulating body at all. Promoters and fighters are trying start one but it's going to take a lot of work to get everyone to agree lol! Grant Waterman who along with Marc Goddard is the top ref in this country is trying to get things going. Our promotion is Pride & Glory.



http://p102.ezboard.com/fsfuksubmissionfightinguksfukmmaforum.showMessage?topicID=25207.topic

 

[FieldDiscipline]

We haven't heard anything at all. The MMA scene is complicated due to the fact there is no regulating body at all. Promoters and fighters are trying start one but it's going to take a lot of work to get everyone to agree lol! Grant Waterman who along with Marc Goddard is the top ref in this country is trying to get things going. Our promotion is Pride & Glory.



http://p102.ezboard.com/fsfuksubmissionfightinguksfukmmaforum.showMessage?topicID=25207.topic

Karate is having the same 'problem' I believe. You are lucky.

Sorry to have hijacked the thread...

 

[meth18au]

I enjoy kickboxing but the doctors haven't mentioned that yet, that may even be more violent than MMA (depending on what rules are used) MT allows elbows which can be devastating in the damage they cause.

Full MT rules are brutal- but it is the choice of the fighter. Of course elbows can be damaging. Soon I plan to train to get in the ring- I don't want some politician or journalist sitting there telling me it is barbaric and I can't do that! And I can't wait to use my elbows, and have them used on me!!!


I'm baffled as to what angle these people are coming from? I mean they could argue that (from what I have read and heard):
1. The sport risks serious injury to participants
2. The sport is barbaric, it is fought in a cage
3. The contestants lives are at risk
4. It is distasteful in todays 'civilised' society
5. We don't need extra violence in this society
6. People shouldn't be allowed to make money off of people's need for 'bloodlust' and violence


But here are my answers to their reasoning. And how illogical some of their arguments are!!!

1. Yes it risks injury. So does rugby, football, surfing....hell all sports do. People choose to do it, let them have the choice. Death comes to all of us, why hide from it on our couch eating potato chips?

2. Is it barbaric? To some maybe, to others it is a highly skilled battle between 2 warriors whom have trained their heart out to get to that point. Yes it is in a cage (sometimes)!!! So what is your point?

3. Yes, but many safeguards are in place to ensure the safety of the fighters. And they aren't actually there to kill each other, regardless of what some people say. And all the arugements from point #1 apply to this point too!!!

4. Distasteful to some, not to others. Is todays society civilised? Ok, of course it is. That's why our politicians live filthy rich lives off our taxes, while we all bust our asses off to make a living. Hell, some people live in absolute poverty, whilst others wipe their asses with money coz they are so rich.

5. No extra violence? Ok, stop sending our troops to war then.

6. Isn't that why governments do when they go to war? What about filmmakers? I remember Arnie in Predator and Terminator. People watched those films to watch him kill people and blow up things. Where there is a demand, someone will supply. It is free-market economics. Or aren't we free markets anymore?



I've been thinking about this issue again. Just trying to see where the other side is coming from, and I still cant fathom where they deduce their logic from!!!

Peace

 

[Andy Moynihan]

Well Ok, I've read the whole thing and good points made by all.


I am not traditionally a person who enjoys the idea of the sports mentioned here. There was a time in my youth when I did, but I grew up.

I'm not a fan of any form of martial arts being marketed for public consumption in any way, shape or form at all, because I believe the purpose of said arts is personal growth, with the emphasis on "personal". You want to have some full contact, MMA-style rules in your sparring matches? As long as the purpose is for your personal growth as a martial artist, go ahead. But I have a VERY big problem when publicity or money become involved because both take away from the arts' true purpose as I view it. I don't like the marketing scheme that hypes up the trash talking, "violent" aspect of the arts mentioned, and I don't like the Unenlightened Masses getting the wrong idea about MY training as a result, I do not even want the Unenlightened Masses to know about my training at ALL. Martial arts are for martial artists, not the gawkers or idly curious, and should be kept from their eyes whenever possible lest they , being ignorant, misunderstand. Now some people may feel this is what they need, because they have something to prove to themselves, or others, or whateever. I was there myself at one point. Having grown up and evolved past that need, I no longer find such events to possess any excitement or useful purpose at all. to me.


Now--with all that being said, I equally oppose the position of the medical authority in the original post to create a ban on these activities because it is none of their goddamned business. I may not like them, but It is not for me to decide what someone who wants to enter does or does not need in order to get over whatever hurdle they have in their life, or it may be, for whatever reason, this is the passion that drives them in life, I neither know nor care, and neither should any lab coat lawyer, and that's the point.

I also happen not to like semiautomatic rifles patterned after the AK-47 or AR-15 designs( i just happen not to like the inaccuracy of the one, and the overly complex mechanism and substandard caliber of the other). . I like even LESS the idea of an ignorant, busybody legislator arbitrarily telling me I cannot own one to protect me from myself for my own good. I am a law abiding US citizen who is serving his country in uniform during wartime, if not in combat,, in the only manner left open to me, at a time when too many much younger and much more fit to serve than I, refuse, and as far as I see it that means I have EARNED the rights guaranteed me in my country and no politician has absolutely ANYTHING to say to me about what I do or do not need. *I* will decide what is or is not "good enough" to save my or my family's lives should the need arise, and so should any free person, cognizant of the physical risks, be left to decide for themselves what is or is not the path they must tread to prove whatever entering such an event as these will prove to them.