Are you bound by tradition?

Gyakuto

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Yep totally agree. Shu is crucial but many people do stay there and think that's all there is. Then people confuse the word "tradition" with the shu stage, and therefore disparage traditional martial artists saying they're "stuck in a dead ritual/art" or that "traditional arts aren't willing to evolve", but they've made the association that traditional means shu, not realising that's not the full spectrum and picture.

But yes I do agree that many (out of perhaps impatience or ego) too readily skip the important shu stage and decide too prematurely they wanna do their own thing.

I guess I was however saying there's so much more to explore in a tradition than simply trying to mimic, but embracing the whole and finding your own path. But it is a fine and delicate balance isn't it!
In all honesty, if I could mimic my teachers technique, Id be more than happy!
 

JowGaWolf

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If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball.
You beat me to it. I was thinking the same thing. The issue is probably more related to childhood games than martial arts.. I grew up dodging things as a kid from the games that I played..

As a kid my friends and I would throw what we called Dirt Bombs (harden flat pieces of dirt.) It was like the soft version of a rock. You can throw it has hard as you like and it would "explode when it hits the body." these things could be easily thrown 20 feet with now problem. Think of a flat skipping rock, but made of dirt lol. As a kid I would have been a Black Belt at dodging rocks. lol.

Anyone from China who used to dodge things being thrown at them as a kick?
 

Kung Fu Wang

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Always referred to myself as a traditionalist.
Always referred to myself as anti-traditional. Until one day someone suggested that CMA is trash, and we should all fight in UFC. I then realized that I'm still far from anti-traditional.

Even today, I still cannot find any machine in the modern gym that can help me to train 2 arms twisting. So, tradition does have value that modern doesn't have.

 
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Kung Fu Wang

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The issue is probably more related to childhood games than martial arts..
When I was a kid, we all like to play sword fighting. Your arm is the sword. if you can touch your arm on your opponent's body, he is out of the game. One kid loved to hold on a big fist with both hands, keep his arms straight, ran toward his opponent like a rhino. That was where I got my "rhino guard" idea.

 

punisher73

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It depends. Many times "tradition" is just a euphemism for "laziness". We have always done it this way, even though we don't know why. If that is the case, then tradition will hinder you. If you have a good school and instructor, then tradition can help guide you with where you want to go and also things that you wouldn't even have realized.

But, the bigger questions are, What is your goal in MA? and Can you meet your goal with your current art? Does your current art fit in with your personality and goals?

Another thing that sometimes people overlook is "cross referencing". You have your base art, but you look at other arts with similar moves/applications and see how/if it fits into what you do. For example, I remember reading an article by Charles Goodin, who heads up a very large Karate collection in Hawaii. He wrote an article about "bunkai" and commented that if you want to learn some of the applications of the movements in the katas, to look at American Kenpo's self defense techniques.

Depending on your art, you don't have to train in different styles and try to learn different ways to do the same thing. To me, that is where "non-traditional" can be a hinderance. I have seen too many people train in multiple styles that had conflicting strategies and methods of delivery. For example, Wing Chun has a VERY different delivery system and strategy than Choy Li Fut. The two are not going to be compatible. But, on the surface someone might think that they could combine the long range of CLF with the short range of WC. It isn't until you really start to understand the body mechanics of the system that you realize it isn't going to work.
 

Gerry Seymour

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Are you a traditionalist?

Do you only practise one particular style of martial arts?

If so, do you think this helps or hinders your progress?
I enjoy some of the tradition of my primary art. Im also one of the few instructors to challenge other of the traditions. I change parts I think dont serve well, while keeping a lot of the traditional approaches, because they appeal to me.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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tra繚di繚tion繚al繚ism - the upholding or maintenance of tradition, especially so as to resist change.

If you have

- not created anything new, you are still a traditionalism (such as ride a horse).
- created something new, you are no longer a traditionalism (such as drive a car).

Both Bill Gates and Steve Jobs are not traditionalism. So not traditionalism is not a bad thing.
 
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Monkey Turned Wolf

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only japanese or korean martial arts are bound by tradiiton but now american kenpo karate
Are you saying no arts besides japanese and korean based arts have tradition? If so, that's incorrect.
Are you saying that american kenpo karate is not inherently japanese? If so, that's mostly incorrect.
Are you saying american kenpo does not have tradition? If so, that's incorrect.
 
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Depending on your art, you don't have to train in different styles and try to learn different ways to do the same thing. To me, that is where "non-traditional" can be a hinderance. I have seen too many people train in multiple styles that had conflicting strategies and methods of delivery. For example, Wing Chun has a VERY different delivery system and strategy than Choy Li Fut. The two are not going to be compatible. But, on the surface someone might think that they could combine the long range of CLF with the short range of WC. It isn't until you really start to understand the body mechanics of the system that you realize it isn't going to work.
This is why reading The Book of Martial Power by Steven J. Pearlman is so important.
 
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Can you expand on that thought?
The book by Steven Pearlman addresses the underlying principles and mechanics of the human body and the martial arts. Once you recognize the underlying concepts it means you need not hop around, mixing and matching different parts from other arts. This book is worth its weight in gold to the martial artist who chooses to apply the lessons it shares.
 
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Gerry Seymour

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The book by Steven Pearlman addresses the underlying principles and mechanics of the human body and the martial arts. Once you recognize the underlying concepts it means you need not hop around, mixing and matching different parts from other arts. This book is worth its weight in gold to the martial artist who chooses to apply the lessons it shares.
I think visiting with different arts has a lot of value. Different arts often teach and/or use the same principles in different ways. Some of the biggest "light bulb moments" I've had were seeing how another art approached something found within my primary art.

Being exposed to other arts also makes it easier to see weaknesses in one's primary art. Those weaknesses are often masked within the closed group of an art, because nearly everyone has them. Playing with people from another art can expose them pretty quickly.
 

Holmejr

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Im only a traditionalist when the traditions are what I consider good and profitable. For the most part movement is simply movement. A movement that has some spiritual, philosophical or cultural meaning in one art means nothing in a different culture and is just as effective.
 

Tony Dismukes

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Being exposed to other arts also makes it easier to see weaknesses in one's primary art. Those weaknesses are often masked within the closed group of an art, because nearly everyone has them. Playing with people from another art can expose them pretty quickly.
One of the bigger mistakes I see in the martial arts is people encountering systems other than their own and immediately scrambling to point out weaknesses in the other art as justifications as to why their own art is superior.

What I find much more productive is to learn enough about the other art to switch perspectives and ask "what would a practitioner of this other style see as flaws or weaknesses in my own training, and what can I do to address those potential problems?"
 

JowGaWolf

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I think visiting with different arts has a lot of value. Different arts often teach and/or use the same principles in different ways. Some of the biggest "light bulb moments" I've had were seeing how another art approached something found within my primary art.

Being exposed to other arts also makes it easier to see weaknesses in one's primary art. Those weaknesses are often masked within the closed group of an art, because nearly everyone has them. Playing with people from another art can expose them pretty quickly.
Jow Ga makes more sense to me when it's used against other systems. Jow Ga vs Outside system = fast-paced learning of Jow Ga. Jow Ga vs Jow Ga = contaminated learning and confusion

The best way I can think of it is like gears falling into place. Everything makes sense. But when I fight Jow Ga vs Jow Ga it's the worst. Nothing falls into place because for the most part the techniques and footwork help to prevent the things that we would normally try to exploit.

I'm thinking Aikido, Wing Chung, Tai Chi, Bagua and many other systems have that same issue.
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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I think visiting with different arts has a lot of value. Different arts often teach and/or use the same principles in different ways. Some of the biggest "light bulb moments" I've had were seeing how another art approached something found within my primary art.

Being exposed to other arts also makes it easier to see weaknesses in one's primary art. Those weaknesses are often masked within the closed group of an art, because nearly everyone has them. Playing with people from another art can expose them pretty quickly.
I agree, but sometimes it doesn't even have to be other arts. Sometimes it can just be another school within the same art, which for one reason or another doesn't have the same weakness as the first school.
 
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I think visiting with different arts has a lot of value. Different arts often teach and/or use the same principles in different ways. Some of the biggest "light bulb moments" I've had were seeing how another art approached something found within my primary art.

Being exposed to other arts also makes it easier to see weaknesses in one's primary art. Those weaknesses are often masked within the closed group of an art, because nearly everyone has them. Playing with people from another art can expose them pretty quickly.
Yes, and this is the point of the book

It helps you understand principles and how they apply to every style and the human body.

Can you give an example of what you mean by seeing weaknesses in your primary art?
 
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