Anyone heard of San Yama Bushi Ryu

AJH40

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Hi,

Got a dojo near me that teaches San Yama Bushi Ryu and wanted to know if is good and legitimate?

Thanks,
 

Hyoho

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Well its maybe as legit of the wierd concoction of Japanese name.Three mountains warrior school?

One doesnt used san in this case but mitsu. San could be Mister but it would come last.
 

Chris Parker

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I'm sure the dojo legitimately teaches San Yama Bushi Ryu... if that helps. If you're asking if it's a legitimate Japanese system, especially if it's a Koryu (traditional, old school), then no, it's not. It's a modern Western (American) system. Is it good? Well, I wouldn't go there... but that's because I'm really only interested in the old Japanese material. The names a dead giveaway that little is understood about Japanese arts and culture, though....

But, as with everything, although it doesn't match what I'd be looking for, I'd still say go and check them out. You might like it... in fact, actual traditional Jujutsu you might not like at all, and this could be a better fit. Only one way to find out... and it ain't by asking strangers on a forum....
 

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As mentioned, see whats right for you by checking it out. Asking questions, getting a feel and observation, will go a long way in any decision you make. Good luck on your journey. :)
 

frank raud

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Well its maybe as legit of the wierd concoction of Japanese name.Three mountains warrior school?

One doesnt used san in this case but mitsu. San could be Mister but it would come last.

San Yama is an offshoot of Miyama ryu, which was developed in the Bronx in the 60's. The original dojo was on Tremont, semi French for three mountains. Hence the name Miyama ryu, and San Yama. The original name was French(sort of) to English to Japanese, then a variation on it. Probably why it is not grammatically correct in any language.
 
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AJH40

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Do you know any more about this art?
 

elder999

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Do you know any more about this art?

I don't know too much about what Negron sensei has done with it since 1991, but I've been a Miyama ryu practitioner since the early eighties.......you can read about the founding of Miyama ryu here. Basically, it's self-defense: an awful lot of WWII era style judo, WWII era military combatives, some boxing and wrestling, and a little aikido, a little Sosuishitsu ryu jujutsu, and even less karate, all with kata focused on western street crime as it existed in what was then called the "Fort Apache" section of the Bronx, from the sixties to the nineties.

An awful lot like what some people used to call "dirty judo."

It's not koryu-it is usually good, solid self defense, whether it's Miyama Ryu, San Yama Bushi Ryu or any of the other variants that have taken place over the decades-and most schools also have judo: if you're interested in competing, there's judo, and if you're interested in self-defense, there's a way to use judo, and if you're interested in both,well, there's both. Many schools also practice some koryu or "koryuish" arts like iaido, and, particularly, Muso Shinden Ryu jo, as well as some form of karate.

Do as others have said, and check it out for yourself-it'll either fit, or it won't.It's usually a bit "rough and tumble," so don't expect to be treated gently-not abused.....just bruised. :lol2:
 

Chris Parker

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I don't know too much about what Negron sensei has done with it since 1991, but I've been a Miyama ryu practitioner since the early eighties.......you can read about the founding of Miyama ryu here. Basically, it's self-defense: an awful lot of WWII era style judo, WWII era military combatives, some boxing and wrestling, and a little aikido, a little Sosuishitsu ryu jujutsu, and even less karate, all with kata focused on western street crime as it existed in what was then called the "Fort Apache" section of the Bronx, from the sixties to the nineties.

An awful lot like what some people used to call "dirty judo."

It's not koryu-it is usually good, solid self defense, whether it's Miyama Ryu, San Yama Bushi Ryu or any of the other variants that have taken place over the decades-and most schools also have judo: if you're interested in competing, there's judo, and if you're interested in self-defense, there's a way to use judo, and if you're interested in both,well, there's both. Many schools also practice some koryu or "koryuish" arts like iaido, and, particularly, Muso Shinden Ryu jo, as well as some form of karate.

Do as others have said, and check it out for yourself-it'll either fit, or it won't.It's usually a bit "rough and tumble," so don't expect to be treated gently-not abused.....just bruised. :lol2:

Hmm.... Muso Shinden Ryu Jo? That's a new one... ha!

Do you know any more about this art?

Everything I've seen from them seems to me to be rather schizoid in their approach... the same as a number of other modern systems from a similar pedigree, they seem to be unsure about exactly what they want to be. There's a lot of traditional-looking material, with techniques against more traditional attacks (ones that simply aren't dealt with today), and then refer to such things as "self defence". To me, that's an incongruence. They seems to be some good, solid training methods (particularly in the "Judo-esque" throws), but the lack of actual awareness or defined direction would throw me. But, as always, the best thing you can do is to go along to one of the classes... it might be perfect for you.
 

elder999

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Hmm.... Muso Shinden Ryu Jo? That's a new one... ha!

.

Yeah, my ,mistake-back east, some people are doing Muso Shinden Ryu Iaido, and/or Shinto Muso Ryu jo (this last with the Skosses. I'm not involved with either of those, and don't really know much-as in anything- about them.) As for the rest of what you say, well, Chris, we're always entitled to your opinion. :lfao:

Here's another, though, about one of the books on Miyama Ryu:
"Highly recommended! An excellent presentation of a proven modern self-defense system."
Diane Skoss -- 4[SUP]th[/SUP] degree Black Belt Aikido
Editor of Koryu Bujutsu (Classical Warrior Traditions of Japan)
Former Managing Editor, Aiki News/Aikido Journal

And I don't really know how much San Yama Bushi Ryu has diverged from Miyama Ryu, but having known Negron sensei back in the 80's and 90's before he went on his own, I'd say probably not too much: fundamentally, it's mostly judo, like I said before....
 

Chris Parker

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Hey, Elder,

Yeah, mistakes just make life fun...! SMR Jo is going to be with Meik, most likely... not sure what Diane's involvement in SMR is. They're both involved in Toda-ha Buko Ryu, and Yagyu Shinkage Ryu.

As far as my opinion, it wasn't on Miyama Ryu, it was on what I've seen of San Yama Bushi Ryu... some examples of what I'm talking about are here:


The attacks aren't really like anything in a modern assault... and are fairly "traditional", when it all comes down to it. Except this is classed and shown as "self defence". Okay, cool and happy, and not too dissimilar to many, many other systems. Nicely performed in the main, and, as you say, there's a lot of Judo in there. But it's missing quite a bit to make it a traditional approach/methodology, and it's not really dealing with modern violence in a way that would make it a modern self defence system (to my mind). So, is it modern self defence, or is it traditional Jujutsu? That's what I meant when I described it as a bit schizoid for my tastes. But, as I also said, that just means it doesn't suit me... not that it's bad, ineffective, or anything negative at all.
 
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elder999

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Hey, Elder,

Yeah, mistakes just make life fun...! SMR Jo is going to be with Meik, most likely... not sure what Diane's involvement in SMR is. They're both involved in Toda-ha Buko Ryu, and Yagyu Shinkage Ryu.

As far as my opinion, it wasn't on Miyama Ryu, it was on what I've seen of San Yama Bushi Ryu... some examples of what I'm talking about are here:


The attacks aren't really like anything in a modern assault... and are fairly "traditional", when it all comes down to it. Except this is classed and shown as "self defence". Okay, cool and happy, and not too dissimilar to many, many other systems. Nicely performed in the main, and, as you say, there's a lot of Judo in there. But it's missing quite a bit to make it a traditional approach/methodology, and it's not really dealing with modern violence in a way that would make it a modern self defence system (to my mind). So, is it modern self defence, or is it traditional Jujutsu? That's what I meant when I described it as a bit schizoid for my tastes. But, as I also said, that just means it doesn't suit me... not that it's bad, ineffective, or anything negative at all.

Yeah, your opinion would apply to Miyama Ryu as well-those are all pretty much straight from Miyama Ryu, even the order in which they were performed.

As for the "schizoid" nature, we do try to be a bit of both to a certain degree. In any case, what appears to be "fairly traditional" to you is also pretty exemplary of street crime attacks one might have encountered in the South Bronx back in the 60's.....it's important to remember that the Tremont Dojo is pretty much in the heart of what became the infamous Fort Apache section of the Bronx, for a time-it was developed in a crime laboratory, with students regularly returning to report on what worked, and what didn't work for them....

.....I also don't think there are many videos of the "combatives" side of things-on the internet or DVD....
 
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