Any Thoughts on George Kirby and Budoshin Ju Jitsu

wab25

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Wally jay

Might be useful for a cop who cares as long as it works. If I was in the US i would try this System.
So this system is much the same as Kirby's system. Jay studied Danzan Ryu under Okazaki. It was Okazaki that studied the more classical systems of jujitsu. Okazaki studied 3 of them, and then added Lua, Kung fu, Boxing, Wrestling and the rest. Jay studied under Okazaki, learning "classical jujitsu" but the "classical jujitsu" was already a "classical hybrid jujitsu." Yes, Jay then went on to add more Judo and then his own take, making Small Circle a hybrid system as well. Thus, Budoshin, Danzan Ryu and Small Circle (and a host of other arts) are all modern hybrid arts. They are all good arts, and the effectiveness of each will be based on the method of training used.

When you study Judo or BJJ, you know what you are going to get. Lots of training with resistance. With these other arts, the only question is what type of training are you going to get. If you train any of these hybrid arts, in the same way that Judo and BJJ train, you will get similar results... maybe with slightly different emphasis... But, you could also get training where everything "works" and it would be "too dangerous to apply for real"... but watching a few classes will tell you which kind of training it will be. The issues are not with the system... but with who is training and how they are doing it. There is nothing inherently wrong with having a hybrid art. (unless you are trying to pass it off as a koryu)
 

Hanzou

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Wally jay

Might be useful for a cop who cares as long as it works. If I was in the US i would try this System.

No one is going to sit there and allow you to hold their fingers while they bend them all over the place. They're going to resist like crazy, and they have all of their limbs and body available to do it.
 

BrendanF

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Questions of lineage are (at their best) factual questions, though the facts can get blurry from time or obfuscation. Questions of purity are often emotional, value-laden judgements. At their best, I think purity questions are about historical accuracy. At their worst, purity questions tend to be about protecting an art from evolution, accommodation to cultural and legal changes, and questions about the purposes actually served by the art.

Thank you for explaining your take on that. It's interesting encountering these sorts of questions among modern 'jujutsu' systems; they don't seem to be much of an issue among koryu practitioners. Many of the koryu I am aware of incorporate modern variations or entire groups of techniques, and/or practice Judo in addition to their koryu practice.

Calling Japanese Ju-Jitsu a hybrid of these gets the order wrong, and thus is misleading about the scope of the arts. Perhaps my biology training is making me pedantic, but the parent isnt a hybrid of the offspring. It would be more accurate (if, perhaps, provocative) to describe the descendants as (evolved, highly focused) subsets of the the parent art. If youre simply trying to explain Japanese Ju-Jitsu to someone who is familiar with judo, aikido, and karate then it could be helpful to say that Ju-Jitsu includes the techniques found in each of these

Sure, but if you're going to be pedantic, one should begin accurately by noting that there is no such thing as 'Japanese Ju-Jitsu' - there are schools of jujutsu that still exist, but no single entity called 'Ju-jitsu'. Many koryu jujutsu schools do not in fact use that term to name their arts; instead using terms like kogusoku, kumiuchi, koshi no mawari, torite, yawara, taijutsu etc.

It would be more accurate to say that Kodokan Judo is a descendant of two koryu jujutsu schools; the Tenjin Shinyo ryu and Kito ryu, with further technical influence and development from a number of other systems. Judo does not have any real technical relationship with Aikido.

Aikido is a descendant virtually exclusively of Sokaku Takeda's modern art of Daito ryu Aikijujutsu. Of course Ueshiba Morihei and his family (and many others) have further developed Aikido as a collective these days.

Karate has no real relationship with Japanese jujutsu systems. As others have pointed out, Budoshin ryu is clearly an invention of Mssrs Kirby and Seki, based largely around Judo and Aikido. In fact it is exactly as described, a hybrid modern art. Which - again as others have mentioned - is fine provided one does not develop the mistaken idea that it is a 'parent art' of either of it's real parents..
 

caped crusader

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No one is going to sit there and allow you to hold their fingers while they bend them all over the place. They're going to resist like crazy, and they have all of their limbs and body available to do it.
No but he talks of using his ideas in other Systems.
 

Denoaikido

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I mean could yoseikan budo be called ju jitsu? Has a big following in France

I would like to say budoshin may or may not have a murky past depending on you view to it's historical lineage but the guy got instructor of the year in by black belt magazine 2007 it's a lot like a mix of judo and aikido but they do strikes it's very solid art imho and Id say bjj is my first art but I've ranked judo and old skoool Japanese Aikido
 
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