Another Wing Chun Forum Thread Locked!!

[Danny T]

Wow. Come on guys; in the past 6-8 months there have been more threads locked than in the past 5 Years!
This used to be a awesome 'Discussion Forum' but has, over the past several months, become the Wing Chun 'Argument Forum'. And it has become such due to a specific few who can not and will not simply agree to disagree. You few, with your egos, are ruining this forum for the rest of the members.

If you can not simply discuss and must prove your every opinion maybe this isn't the place for you.
State your opinion, thoughts, and ideas. Allow all to state theirs as well. Ask questions and answer questions asked of you, but if you can not simple discuss and must resort to name calling, proving another is wrong, and have to one up someone please go some where else.

 

[Marnetmar]

Any reason mods aren't taking further action than simply locking threads? It's like trying to cure cancer by removing half of a tumor.

 

[Steve]

Any reason mods aren't taking further action than simply locking threads? It's like trying to cure cancer by removing half of a tumor.

From the outside, as a completely objective observer with no stake, I can sympathize with the moderators. It's impossible for me to distinguish between the two sides. I read the last thread with interest, but I don't see anything to distinguish one side from the other, as far as respectful, constructive dialogue. Both sides are entrenched. And each is accusing the other of exactly the same poor behavior. You have both sides accusing the other of managing multiple accounts, not listening, being rude, actively trolling and, oh yeah, not having the "real" Wing Chun (or VT or WC or whatever).

Which half of the tumor is the right one to go? I suspect if you ask one side, they would say that the other is the one that is causing all the problems.

To be clear, I have no idea what kind of discussion is happening amongst the administration. I'm just sharing my own observations, for what they are worth.

 

[geezer]

Steve's right on the money here. My opinions about WC/VT/WT happen to align pretty closely with one group, but in all honesty I have to say that both groups have pretty much taken an equal role in provoking and prolonging the bickering that is such a problem. It's really like a couple of kids fighting in the back seat until Dad (the mods) finally have to pull the car over.

The problem is, these guys have the potential to contribute a lot. And if the Mods ban all four parties that are involved, we will lose a lot of our energy on this forum. The same thing totally killed another forum where some of these people were active previously. I just wish they'd all chill, and lighten up. Or, if they can't, at least put the opposite group on ignore so they don't get drawn into more arguments.

Failing that, maybe somebody will get banned. These guys are worse than bratty teenagers! I know because I have two at home and I teach high school art. The last class of the day is always rowdy. Usually there's a whole group involved. I can't catch them all pranking, so sometimes I have to just grab one and send him up to the office. A scapegoat and warning to the others. Not the fairest solution, but it usually works.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I have to admit, that one went on a lot longer than I thought it would. I expected that to be locked a long time ago.

 

[Pat M]

Respect the ART and not your EGO

Following that simple guide will go a long way.

 

[mograph]

Respect the ART and not your EGO.

Unfortunately, some people might think they're protecting the art as they see it. Protecting a world view is pretty common, and gets us into trouble all over the place. (shrug)

 

[Danny T]

Not wanting to see any of the participants banned. It is what I am wanting to prevent. Everyone has a perspective we can learn about and from. Well many us can.
If you can't concede or accept another person's perspective or opinion state you disagree and move on. Or better just stay out of the discussion all together. What does it serve getting into an argument, proving someone wrong, or that you've won an opinionated argument other than proving you to be an annoyance and stifling any real discussion of the subject matter with others.

 

[dudewingchun]

It really is only Guy B and LFJ to be honest. They are on both Martial Talk and KFM forum giving everyone difficulty. Especially Alan for some reason. But they never produce anything. They just talk ****.

 

[jks9199]

Any reason mods aren't taking further action than simply locking threads? It's like trying to cure cancer by removing half of a tumor.

A note regarding moderator actions...

Locking a thread is one of the few VISIBLE actions we take. Most moderator actions, generally after discussion and consensus among the staff, are handled between the Mods and the individual user. We don't generally share what happens. Our actions can range from finding no violation, to general warnings ,private messages or 0 point warnings, or infraction points, even suspension and bans. But we rarely announce actions against a particular user publicly; nobody really wants to have their indiscretions handled in full public view.

Folks, we get that passions are high. You love what you do. And we want folks to disagree -- but do it politely. Otherwise, MT would be boring as hell... So, handle disagreements with class, and you can debate and argue about things until the cows come home...

 

[LFJ]

It really is only Guy B and LFJ to be honest. They are on both Martial Talk and KFM forum giving everyone difficulty. Especially Alan for some reason. But they never produce anything. They just talk ****.

A bit biased, I think. I don't believe I've been at all belligerent or talked edit. For public record, I received no warning on that topic, so the moderators must agree it wasn't me in any violation.

I was asked for a sparring video, and posted a clip showing a bit. It was pretty well-received.

I wouldn't think it's giving Alan "difficulty" to ask for a timestamp for something he says is directly applicable when he has many public fight videos, and I don't see it.

If that's unreasonable or offensive, I don't know, maybe he shouldn't make things public? Didn't think I was putting anyone on the spot, given that the fight videos have already been made.

I don't see how I've been offensive. Some just felt the need to turn things into an argument. In any case, I will try to keep your feelings in mind going forward.

Honestly, I'm just really interested in seeing it work in free fighting. Sure, I have my doubts, but that's why I want to see it. Might be worth learning if it can be shown to work!

 

[guy b.]

A bit biased, I think. I don't believe I've been at all belligerent or talked edit. For public record, I received no warning on that topic, so the moderators must agree it wasn't me in any violation.

I was asked for a sparring video, and posted a clip showing a bit. It was pretty well-received.

I wouldn't think it's giving Alan "difficulty" to ask for a timestamp for something he says is directly applicable when he has many public fight videos, and I don't see it.

If that's unreasonable or offensive, I don't know, maybe he shouldn't make things public? Didn't think I was putting anyone on the spot, given that the fight videos have already been made.

I don't see how I've been offensive. Some just felt the need to turn things into an argument. In any case, I will try to keep your feelings in mind going forward.

Honestly, I'm just really interested in seeing it work in free fighting. Sure, I have my doubts, but that's why I want to see it. Might be worth learning if it can be shown to work!

Good post. I agree that asking to see something made public in videos produced for public consumption/advertising is not too unreasonable.

I have had personal disagreements with Alan in the past, the most recent of which involved him challenging me to a fight with someone else on this forum. But I don't see how this personal drama invalidates the basic question that was being asked on the thread. I have nothing against the CSL group and find their fights to be interesting to watch, which is why I am curious about their wing chun.

 

[guy b.]

It really is only Guy B and LFJ to be honest. They are on both Martial Talk and KFM forum giving everyone difficulty. Especially Alan for some reason. But they never produce anything. They just talk ****.

This does seem a bit biased and doesn't reflect the way you have interacted with me in private messages.

 

[Marnetmar]

Good post. I agree that asking to see something made public in videos produced for public consumption/advertising is not too unreasonable.

I have had personal disagreements with Alan in the past, the most recent of which involved him challenging me to a fight with someone else on this forum. But I don't see how this personal drama invalidates the basic question that was being asked on the thread. I have nothing against the CSL group and find their fights to be interesting to watch, which is why I am curious about their wing chun.

Just my two cents, but this isn't what I've seen. Unless I'm thinking of a different group of people, you lot sometimes act like Alan and Robert Chu are running some sort of underground crime syndicate for WC including baseless accusations of Robert Chu himself allegedly bullying others around. That's not cool man :/

 

[LFJ]

No idea what group you're talking about, @Marnetmar, but I ain't part of it.

I'm not so familiar with the guy and can barely say I even know who he is, apart from being Alan's teacher and having studied a few different lineages.

I've never given any such opinion on him in any post I've ever made on any forum. I don't even have an opinion of him, having not seen much of anything from him or interacted with him.

 

[Marnetmar]

Ah, I must be thinking of a different group then. My apologies!

 

[Transk53]

I remember a post where Guy B asked me I thought you wanted to fight, or words to that effect. That is not discussion, just passion over certain perceived slights. It has come to the point that a wind up has become contaminated, thus I apologise to Guy B if if I have slighted him. However passion can descend into fanaticism over rational thought. Surely Martial Talk is a mechanism for thoughts and ideas for cross talk on what members train and learn, not a playground for bitching on what linage is king. At least that is what I have derived as the outcome on most threads. Discussion not criticism IMHO, not jump on something just because it is a certain member posting. I count myself as being guilty, because being human, things can quickly become infectious.

 

[LFJ]

Hmm, two people X my post to "disagree" but don't bother explaining themselves.

Seems rather obnoxious and unproductive in a thread about trying to understand each other and get along...

People being unwilling to explain themselves and just being argumentative is a big part of the problem on this forum.

Not many straight talkers here.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Interesting...it would seem that the thread "Another Wing Chun Forum Thread Locked!!" is destine to be locked as well.... here let me see if this helps

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Allow me to ask a simple question here.

If A puts up a clip online and B says it's a bad clip, should B put up a better clip to prove why he had said that A's clip is bad?

In other words, can you say something is bad if you can't prove that you will be able to do better? IMO, if you can't support what you want to say, you should not say it in the first place.