Alternating Maces

[matthewgreenland]

I was reading back a bit and saw some of the principles that were mentioned.

Let us not forget Opposing Forces: after the forward bow "with" the vertical punch - utilizing opposing forces, shift back into the neutral as you deliver the snapping back-knuckle strike to the Temple - or whatever target is available -

In reading what many are writing - I like what I see; however, I can relate to getting caught up in the web of obsessing on a particular move and the exact angles. Remeber: sometimes a crescent wrench works better / sometimes a socket works better / and sometimes a standard wrench works better - it is all in what results one would like to see - and which tool "THEY" can utilize most effectively. Application, Application, Application -

I think if one can back up a variation with logic/sound priciples/precision - and make it work - good for them.

Take it easy

 

[jfarnsworth]

That's quite a description Dr. Chap'el. Thank you for posting this along with the discussion. Although I don't understand all of this but I will try with practice, trial and error.
Salute,
Jason Farnsworth

 

[Rainman]

I agree. The medium just doesn't allow for a true understanding of what must be proven physically ever so subtlely. One day face to face one on one I'll make your eyes bigger.

Well you will have to give me some contact info- I hear you are hard to find:rofl:

:asian:

Remeber: sometimes a crescent wrench works better / sometimes a socket works better / and sometimes a standard wrench works better -

I prefer Snap On- Crescent adjustable wrenches are for hacks.

 

[ikenpo]

Originally posted by Doc




Timing & Breathing Signature™: 1,2 P 3 C
GCM Signature™: G 1 G 2 G 3 G 4

Doc,

What are Timing & Breathing Signature?
What's GCM Signature?

Are these newly updated to the material? I don't see them in the literature you gave me a while back. Or are they part of the progression of the sytem that wasn't in the literature before?

Question: At one point we spoke of CMA, how would that apply to a technique like Alternating Maces?

jb:asian:

 

[Goldendragon7]

 

[ikenpo]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

Naw,

Back when I visited Doc he metioned control manipulation alternatives (cma's)....that's all.

jb:asian:

 

[Goldendragon7]

 

[Seig]

The Lone Armadillo in on the subject:rofl:

 

[Goldendragon7]

If you notice he isn't posting anything here! He's rolling around trying to find the brakes......

:rofl:

 

[Seig]

Who cut his lines?

 

[Goldendragon7]

he thought they were shoestrings.....
:rofl:

 

[cdhall]

Alternating Maces is a sentimental favorite of mine. One night when I was teaching I said that some techniques flat don't work in "slow motion" and what do you know, we came to Alternating Maces. So one of the students still didn't believe this worked and I said "OK, front, two-hand low push, I'll show you." So he came in and I didn't move. He was perplexed. I said "You must attack properly or this won't work in the Ideal Phase which is what you are asking about." So he comes at me again and I shuffle back. He is perplexed again. I said "I want to make sure you are coming for real. Do it just like that again. So he did and BAM! I nailed him on the reverse punch. I was using control but he Impaled himself. I stopped to see that he was OK and then finished the backfist and crossed out. He was a believer. I said "See." He was totally unhurt, but he felt and he believed. I turned around at that point to see that Mr. Duffy had been standing there for some time. This was shortly after he assigned me a class of my own, so I guess he was observing. He had a big smile on his face. I was very happy.

The variation I taught was the one posted by KenpoTess.

I don't understand the timing and breathing and signature notes that Dr. Chapel posted. Like Jason said "What are Timing & Breathing Signature? What's GCM Signature?"

I also have only been introduced to Slap Checks by Mr. Parker Jr. I can repeat the demo he did on me, but I am not confident that I totally understand what is going on. Where is this material elaborated on more fully? Is there a book or video? I'm only a Brown Belt of course, but I am curious. When I signed up back originally there was all that "Slap Art" stuff going around but it was never demystified for me. Mr. Kelly explained it once at camp but it was not the same explanation I have heard elsewhere if I understood him correctly.

Dr. Chapel, could you elaborate for us? Thank you.
:asian:

 

[Doc]

Excerpt from an in-progress article


In the beginning on the mainland when Ed Parker began studying with many Chinese Masters, he taught Kenpo from more of the traditional Chinese perspective. This prompted his first book “Secrets of Chinese Karate.” The Chinese Arts were unknown to the American Public and Ed Parker was attempting to show the roots of “Karate” were from the Chinese. During this time, the “slap-check” or “pak-sao” in Chinese, was a natural part of his personal interpretation of his art.

Film and video from the late sixties on demonstrate Ed Parker always slapped checked in his technique execution. However he never explained why nor did he ever write anything on the subject. This should give pause to those that think Infinite Insight contains all the knowledge of Ed Parker. It also suggests there was, at the least, other information that was not being generally dessiminated to so-called close students.

Infinite Insights philosophically explains the conceptual commercial art he called Motion-Kenpo, obviously because it is motion based. But students of this art must remember there was no Motion-Kenpo before the early seventies, and many seniors like Dave Hebler or Chuck Sullivan learned Kenpo from a different perspective long before Motion-Kenpo existed. Therefore it should not be much of a stretch to suggest the previous versions of his art (that contained the Slap-Check) existed concurrently with his commercial version(s) until he died. especially since he never stopped Slap-Checking.

In his transition to his commercial art, American Motion-Kenpo, the Slap-Check virtually disappeared from his teachings and writings as well. Although he still utilized it in his own execution, he did not teach it or ever explain its use in any detail. Many of his later students would attempt to mimic him not realizing when where and how you “slap” yourself can have a profound positive or negative effect. Student misuse of the “slap-check” they didn’t understand is what gave Kenpo its derisive nick name from traditionalist as, “the slap art.”

In the Chinese Combat Science, the Slap-Check (Pak Sao) is used in part essentially as it was used by Ed Parker in the early days. Its other related concepts are Lop-Sao (blocking hand), and the Chi-Sao (sticking hand). Most in “Motion-Kenpo” are unaware of its existence and only a few attempt to mimic Ed Parker’s use of them, but are unaware of their depth or how they actually function.

The reason for the lack of knowledge for such a important part of American Kenpo comes from Mr. Parker’s decision to begin, by personal preference and necessity, to teach a “motion based concept.” This motion component does not utilize the Slap-Check and was abandoned by Mr. Parker in his teachings in the sixties, in favor of a more interpretive and less strict in-formal style of Kenpo, that emphasized “Positional Checks,” over the Pak-Sao.

Unfortunately, even then, students of Ed Parker attempted to mimic Mr. Parker’s use of the Slap-Check. Their mis-understanding is the origin of the term “slap art.” Some of the non-Chinese traditionalist didn’t understand it, along with Ed Parker’s students who attempting to mimic their teacher, mis-applied it because a lack of instruction............

this methodology is in fact taught as a specific component of execution in Sub-Level Four Kenpo of American Kenpo. In fact, you cannot get to the higher levels of Kenpo in general unless you have been properly taught why, how, when, and where to Slap-Check. Where you Slap-Check is important because if you strike yourself at the wrong place at the wrong time, you make yourself susceptible to injury as you interrupt your own energy. I’ve seen a couple of well-known Kenpoists do this incorrectly......................................

Purely on a mechanical level it is important to the “balance” of the body that neither side be “Passive in its Execution of Movement. As an example, when you walk, you use both sides of your body in opposition to create a “balanced movement.” Did you ever try running real fast with your hands in your pocket?

Although in many way mechanical, anatomical, etc, the most intriguing aspect is how it forms the basis for simple energy transference from one side of the body to the other. When executed in conjunction with proper anatomical movement, internal energy is harnessed and moved within the confines of the overall circuit (the human body) and can actually be concentrated in one part of the body to bolster or provide substantial support. The simplest form of this is simply moving energy from one side of your centerline (conception vessel) to the other..........

Because of the complexity of its use, it is not necessarily something that can be interjected into a persons training except on a case by case physical application basis. Its use is quite specific and its misuse can have explicit complications. It is designed in SubLevel-4 to be taught in conjunction with the methodology of the specific application technique. Taken out of context it will not necessarily yield the same benefits or results, and can have as significant negative impact on its user. In other words, it is part of the overall process that it must be taught to yield consistently positive results from created energy..........................................

 

[cdhall]

Thank you Dr. Chapel,

I will look forward to seeing more of this somehow.

As Mr. Speakman said in The Perfect Weapon:

"It never hurts to ask."

:asian:

 

[ikenpo]

Originally posted by cdhall

Thank you Dr. Chapel,

I will look forward to seeing more of this somehow.

As Mr. Speakman said in The Perfect Weapon:

"It never hurts to ask."

:asian:

Replying to Doc and inserting a Speakman quote....hee,hee :rofl:

You really do need to meet him....

Doc,

What about my questions?

jb:asian:

 

[Goldendragon7]

tsk tsk.....

shaking head......:rofl:

 

[Rainman]

.

Infinite Insights philosophically explains the conceptual commercial art he called Motion-Kenpo, obviously because it is motion based. But students of this art must remember there was no Motion-Kenpo before the early seventies, and many seniors like Dave Hebler or Chuck Sullivan learned Kenpo from a different perspective long before Motion-Kenpo existed. Therefore it should not be much of a stretch to suggest the previous versions of his art (that contained the Slap-Check) existed concurrently with his commercial version(s) until he died. especially since he never stopped Slap-Checking.

Yep and I didn't even know they were called that... Thanks for laying that out the way you did.

:asian:

 

[Chronuss]

To me, Alternating Maces is a center-line defense against a center-line attack; an attacker using his/her entire body mass behind their two arms. I may be wrong on this, but once the inner forearm block is executed, instead of going directly to a right neutral bow, I tend to settle into a horse stance. As soon as my right arm has checked over the oppenent's two, my body easily swivels into the right neutral bow, also giving the vertical punch a little more 'oomph.' And like Sensei Seigel said, this technique is greatly appreciated in some sparring situations, hell, he's used it me.

 

[ikenpo]

Originally posted by cdhall

I will look forward to seeing more of this somehow.

Doug,

The day you meet Doc you'll be face to face with one of the smartest men in Kenpo out there. He sent me a copy of his updated yellow info and it's even further advanced than the stuff I got a year or two ago. To paraphrase his info...

The Timing Signature(tm) is designed to set the rhythmic pattern that will insure the techniques destructive sequence timing is observed.

The Breathing Signature(tm) forces students to breath in the appropriate manner with a technique sequence.

The GCM (tm) is the Grappling Control Mechanism....I'll let him explain more if he chooses to in public.

All three have more info, but I don't feel like typing any more and if Doc wants to elaborate he will.

jb:asian:

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by Rainman



I prefer Snap On- Crescent adjustable wrenches are for hacks.

I'm sorry. I was contacted when you posted this. There are 2 numbers on my site you can use and leave a call back. I love to talk to people about Mr. parker's works.