Aikikai and Kokikai question

[Xue Sheng]

I just discovered that there was a Kokikai Aikido school in my area and this got me wondering.

What is the difference between Kokikai and Aikikai?

 

[Jenna]

Not expert and but in my estimation XS any differences you notice will be due to the sensei and not the style. Kokikai in many dojo you visit might feel to have greater concern for ki application and development you know? It depend what you already know of Aikido in other dojo whether you even notice differences..

If anything, to me Kokikai is slightly more gentle even than Aikikai.. how I mean this? like less hard mat slapping ukemi for one thing maybe.. Also to me Kokikai teaching in the real world feel more standardised across dojos than Aikikai, that is just subjective. However Aikikai still are flag bearers for Ueshiba tenets, if that is important to you or not..

Nevertheless in the real world, you may find the different approaches of individual instructor outweigh the subtle nuances of the two schools of Aikido.. That is just my experience with the two in real world. For me it is how I relate to the sensei. Or not. I very much like Kokikai dojo I have been in and would happily switch if I had to learn over! Wishes xox

 

[O'Malley]

If it can help, their Wikipedia page says that Kokikai is basically an offshoot of Ki Society: Kokikai - Wikipedia

Their founder was a direct student under Tohei, followed the master when he founded Ki Society and then left to make his own school and organization.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Is there less emphasis on things like shikko and applications done from the knees?
And if there are no break-falls (as I was told recently off MT), do they train falling, and how?

 

[Jenna]

Am not aware of de-emphasised suwari waza or knee walking between Kokikai or other variant Aiki styles.. nope.. same.

Break falls yes as a matter of course! Kokikai is more in keeping with proper Aiki tenets avoiding poor ukemi practice what happen in lot of dojos to finish with mat slapping breakfall! nope not good! uke come stamp on your head then!! Kokikai by standard good ukemi practice to roll away into preparedness for next attack.. this is preferred and is more rigorously adhered to in Kokikai than in other variant Aikido even my Aikikai (just anecdote ymmv)

Also perhaps it is pertinent to you for good or for not good I find greater explicit emphasis on mind-body development and control in Kokikai than with other Aiki style.. tho again ymmv.. disclaimer in case you seek for damages against me!! I cannot afford it!!!

 

[Xue Sheng]

Am not aware of de-emphasised suwari waza or knee walking between Kokikai or other variant Aiki styles.. nope.. same.

Break falls yes as a matter of course! Kokikai is more in keeping with proper Aiki tenets avoiding poor ukemi practice what happen in lot of dojos to finish with mat slapping breakfall! nope not good! uke come stamp on your head then!! Kokikai by standard good ukemi practice to roll away into preparedness for next attack.. this is preferred and is more rigorously adhered to in Kokikai than in other variant Aikido even my Aikikai (just anecdote ymmv)

Also perhaps it is pertinent to you for good or for not good I find greater explicit emphasis on mind-body development and control in Kokikai than with other Aiki style.. tho again ymmv.. disclaimer in case you seek for damages against me!! I cannot afford it!!!

Thank you and I would never seek damages against you

As for the mind body thing, I will admit I became intrigued with Aikido and Ki after reading Koichi Tohei's book, likely due to my CMA background in "internal" styles. And to find an off shoot of his way of aikido in my area is rather interesting. However I do not think my knees could handle any of the knee based things that seem to be part of aikido

 

[Jenna]

Thank you and I would never seek damages against you

As for the mind body thing, I will admit I became intrigued with Aikido and Ki after reading Koichi Tohei's book, likely due to my CMA background in "internal" styles. And to find an off shoot of his way of aikido in my area is rather interesting. However I do not think my knees could handle any of the knee based things that seem to be part of aikido

Knee damage yes it occur unfortunately resulting of overdoing suwari waza.. People had said it would strengthen knees and but is caveated that knees must FIRST be in good condition to withstand repetition of these techniqes! Any good sensei use compassion and common sense.. I think it be harsh if you were obliged to incorporate suwari if you had existing injuries.. I see this all of the time.. wrists in particular, elbows.. if you cannot do it, just sit it out.. is not shame or lacking just is what it is everybody have some thing .. please you go visit and ask yes least then you will know?? Kokikai sensei will be understanding fo sho xo

 

[now disabled]

Thank you and I would never seek damages against you

As for the mind body thing, I will admit I became intrigued with Aikido and Ki after reading Koichi Tohei's book, likely due to my CMA background in "internal" styles. And to find an off shoot of his way of aikido in my area is rather interesting. However I do not think my knees could handle any of the knee based things that seem to be part of aikido

I know it a bit out of date but the break for the Aikikai and tohei was not amicable as such and the second Doshu and Tohei did fall out and that was when Tohei was the chief instructor at the Aikikai. There was a rumour ( i heard it 100th hand lol) that Tohei started to develop his interest in Ki when he knackered his shoulder but others say that not true and it was his war time experience either way it led to the doshu and Tohei parting (it should be noted that was after Ueshiba Morihei passed)

 

[Xue Sheng]

I know this is an old thread of mine, but I just found this and thought it might be of interest to others this is nothing I posted, I just found it

all that follows is from LiveJournal

"I've trained in several Kokikai dojos and several Aikikai dojos. The most important point to understand here is that Aikikai and Kokikai are both political organizations within the aikido world. But there's a crucial difference between the two organizations.

The style and approach that one finds in a given dojo depends, obviously, on the individual sensei, and on the sensei's lineage and/or stylistic affiliation - i.e., who did the sensei learn from?

Kokikai is an organization run by Shuji Maruyama Sensei, an extraordinary and somewhat eccentric aikido old-timer. Maruyama Sensei has developed his own fairly distinctive style of aikido, Kokikai-ryu Aikido. All Kokikai dojos teach this specific style. Maruyama refines his style constantly, and tours the world regularly to make sure that Kokikai senseis everywhere are up to speed on his approach to aikido. In terms of aikido politics, Maruyama is a strict isolationist who frowns on any cross-training with other styles. So Kokikai dojos are relatively homogenous in their approach.

On the other hand, Aikikai is a HUGE "umbrella" organization. That is, within Aikikai, there are many different styles of aikido, run by various advanced senseis. So when you hear a dojo is "Aikikai," it actually tells you very little about how aikido is taught in that dojo. There's enormous variation. If you select two Aikikai-affiliated dojos at random and compare their styles, you might find them nearly identical to one another, or vastly different. To know anything about the aikido that's taught in your dojo, we'd have to know more about the dojo's specific lineage.

I can tell you that Kokikai is a "soft" style, with a strong emphasis on relaxation, flow, and natural movement. So if your dojo's approach involves a lot of breakfalls, atemi, and wide stances, then you'd find Kokikai extremely different; whereas if your dojo's approach involves a lot of soft rolls, relaxed and rounded movements, and relatively narrow stances, Kokikai probably won't seem too alien to you."

 

[O'Malley]

I know this is an old thread of mine, but I just found this and thought it might be of interest to others this is nothing I posted, I just found it

all that follows is from LiveJournal

"I've trained in several Kokikai dojos and several Aikikai dojos. The most important point to understand here is that Aikikai and Kokikai are both political organizations within the aikido world. But there's a crucial difference between the two organizations.

The style and approach that one finds in a given dojo depends, obviously, on the individual sensei, and on the sensei's lineage and/or stylistic affiliation - i.e., who did the sensei learn from?

Kokikai is an organization run by Shuji Maruyama Sensei, an extraordinary and somewhat eccentric aikido old-timer. Maruyama Sensei has developed his own fairly distinctive style of aikido, Kokikai-ryu Aikido. All Kokikai dojos teach this specific style. Maruyama refines his style constantly, and tours the world regularly to make sure that Kokikai senseis everywhere are up to speed on his approach to aikido. In terms of aikido politics, Maruyama is a strict isolationist who frowns on any cross-training with other styles. So Kokikai dojos are relatively homogenous in their approach.

On the other hand, Aikikai is a HUGE "umbrella" organization. That is, within Aikikai, there are many different styles of aikido, run by various advanced senseis. So when you hear a dojo is "Aikikai," it actually tells you very little about how aikido is taught in that dojo. There's enormous variation. If you select two Aikikai-affiliated dojos at random and compare their styles, you might find them nearly identical to one another, or vastly different. To know anything about the aikido that's taught in your dojo, we'd have to know more about the dojo's specific lineage.

I can tell you that Kokikai is a "soft" style, with a strong emphasis on relaxation, flow, and natural movement. So if your dojo's approach involves a lot of breakfalls, atemi, and wide stances, then you'd find Kokikai extremely different; whereas if your dojo's approach involves a lot of soft rolls, relaxed and rounded movements, and relatively narrow stances, Kokikai probably won't seem too alien to you."

Nice addition to the thread.

I'll complete the part in bold with this: the degree of uniformity in Aikikai-affiliated dojos is loosely correlated to their ties with the Aikikai Hombu (Headquarters) dojo in Tokyo. Dojos that regularly invite the same instructors from Hombu to teach seminars and try to comply with these instructors' teachings will be more similar, compared to dojos that are formally affiliated with the Aikikai but do their own thing. Likewise, there are instructors that have a strong influence on certain regions, such as Christian Tissier in Europe.