Advice with new martial art needed

[Kissthecarpet]

Hi everyone!, I wanna post a question, about a new martial art or general advice on how to proceed:

I been practicing CLF KF for a number of years, unfortunately some months back, i gain a lot of weight and notice that i was taking a lot of punishing in the knees probably because of low stances plus the extra weight, now my knees hurt from time to time without making any effort at all. So for this i quitted KF. and i am inactive currently.

Should i try a different martial art wich is gentler in the legs? What style?.
Thanks in advance.

 

[AlexanderZousky]

Hi,
i would suggest Aikido since there are no kicking and all you learn is to lock the opponent down. It might seem fake but its not, i have been studying from 2 years on aikido now and i have been in many situation where i have to lock the person down, it would not be a assault depending on what moves you do. There are probably some dojos near you if you are interested. Maybe you should get your knee checked out to see if doctors can do anything about it.

 

[Kissthecarpet]

Yes the doctor prescrive flavonoids for venous return and suportive stokings, i never consider Aikido because of the negative comments about it's limitations, but soft arts could be helpful, i will check it out.

 

[drop bear]

Have you considered loosing the weight?

Boxing is pretty easy on the knees.

 

[oftheherd1]

What is CLF KF? My first thought is Chinese Long Fist Kung Fu, but I could be wrong. BTW, if you haven't, you might wish to go to the Meet and Greet sub-forum and tell us a little about yourself.

I know nothing about CLF KF, but I have to agree if your knees only started bothering you since you gained weight, especially if it was a significant weight gain, that is the first thing I would recommend you attempt to correct. What has caused your weight gain? That is something you need to discuss with a doctor.

As to Aikido, I have never studied it but have talked to a lot of practitioners. It has some similarities to my art, Hapkido. In no way would I consider it to have limitations any more than any other martial art. In fact, if anything, I would say it has less limitation that some other arts, but of course depends on what you consider limitations.

But before I would suggest any art to you I would suggest you find out what is causing your weight gain and get that corrected. Imho, no MA is going to be helpful until you do that.

 

[Kissthecarpet]

Have you considered loosing the weight?

Boxing is pretty easy on the knees.

I am currently using my bike again (little by little) and eating more healthy stuff, yes.

 

[Kissthecarpet]

What is CLF KF? My first thought is Chinese Long Fist Kung Fu, but I could be wrong. BTW, if you haven't, you might wish to go to the Meet and Greet sub-forum and tell us a little about yourself.

I know nothing about CLF KF, but I have to agree if your knees only started bothering you since you gained weight, especially if it was a significant weight gain, that is the first thing I would recommend you attempt to correct. What has caused your weight gain? That is something you need to discuss with a doctor.

As to Aikido, I have never studied it but have talked to a lot of practitioners. It has some similarities to my art, Hapkido. In no way would I consider it to have limitations any more than any other martial art. In fact, if anything, I would say it has less limitation that some other arts, but of course depends on what you consider limitations.

But before I would suggest any art to you I would suggest you find out what is causing your weight gain and get that corrected. Imho, no MA is going to be helpful until you do that.

Thanks for the advise, i am trying to lose weight, and by CLF i meant Choy Lay Fut, to really understand if Aikido is limited or not (as i heard is mainly joint manipulation) i should try a class and see how it goes.

 

[skribs]

Whether aikido is limited or not will depend on your instructor, same as any art. My understanding is that a lot of aikido classes don't train for failure, in that you perform a technique and your partner is supposed to go where the script says he goes, instead of where you MAKE him go, and he's not supposed to fight back. If the school you are at performs this way, you may not learn the techniques correctly, and you won't know what to do if they counter it.

This is not meant to disparage aikido, or to say what percentage of schools are this way. It's just something to look out for.

 

[Kissthecarpet]

Whether aikido is limited or not will depend on your instructor, same as any art. My understanding is that a lot of aikido classes don't train for failure, in that you perform a technique and your partner is supposed to go where the script says he goes, instead of where you MAKE him go, and he's not supposed to fight back. If the school you are at performs this way, you may not learn the techniques correctly, and you won't know what to do if they counter it.

This is not meant to disparage aikido, or to say what percentage of schools are this way. It's just something to look out for.

Compliant partner stuff is something that i have seen in some dojos, it may look inocent but in the long run is endangering the very life of the student, some compliancy has its place in very early stages of training (like learning how to properly land after a throw) but if this goes all the way to Black belt level...

 

[oftheherd1]

Thanks for the advise, i am trying to lose weight, and by CLF i meant Choy Lay Fut, to really understand if Aikido is limited or not (as i heard is mainly joint manipulation) i should try a class and see how it goes.

Absent some medical condition, exercising and portions in eating are the best way to lose weight. Not the easiest, don't let anybody lie to you, but the best.

As to Aikido, like the Hapkido I studied, it tends to be more defensive. Unlike the Hapkido I studied, it seems to me Aikido understands the opponent may be hurt by a technique, but that isn't the intent.

Now here's the thing. How many times do you suppose you will do a joint manipulation, many if not most of the times, the result of the manipulation being the opponent being thrown, before the opponent will remember an important appointment he just made up, so he can stop bothering you and leave?

Strikes and kicks have their place, but so do joint manipulations and throws. You probably should look into Aikido a little more.

 

[oftheherd1]

Whether aikido is limited or not will depend on your instructor, same as any art. My understanding is that a lot of aikido classes don't train for failure, in that you perform a technique and your partner is supposed to go where the script says he goes, instead of where you MAKE him go, and he's not supposed to fight back. If the school you are at performs this way, you may not learn the techniques correctly, and you won't know what to do if they counter it.

This is not meant to disparage aikido, or to say what percentage of schools are this way. It's just something to look out for.

I have no way to judge your Hapkido other than as you describe it. Suppose as a very basic technique you let him grab your right wrist with his left hand. You reach down, grab the back of his hand and slip you fingers under his palm. Then you pull his hand up and into your chest, cranking it counter-clockwise as you do, and forcing his hand down into his wrist. Now you can step forward and strike him on the back of the upper arm, on the nerves there, forcing him to the ground, and strike him.

Or, when you pull his hand into your chest, you grab his wrist with your right hand, thumb down, and with your left hand on the back of his hand, forcing his hand into his wrist as you step back with your left leg. You keep pulling him down and back and kick forward to his head with your left knee. When everything is moving fast, how will he know which break fall to do to protect himself?

Now everyone else reading this is confused and certain neither technique will work in the two minutes it has taken to read (but still not understand) them, and say Hapkido must be a stupid MA. You and I, if you have learned those defenses, know they are done very quickly and in a way the opponent will have trouble resisting, even if they know which defense you are going to use. They had best know what is coming, and flow into it rather than resist. Isn't that how you were taught? If you want to practice sometimes letting them resist to a point, at speed, that is OK, as long as you know when to stop.

Because if you don't stop at the right place, or don't allow them to flow into the technique, how are you going to explain their injury? Your teacher and your opponent's family will surely want to know.

Maybe I am not understanding you?

I could be wrong about Aikido, so I hope some of the Aikido practitioners will come in and explain whether or not they practice in a way as not to injure their practice partners. Maybe not. Perhaps all techniques move the opponent in the same way.

 

[Hanshi]

Hi everyone!, I wanna post a question, about a new martial art or general advice on how to proceed:

I been practicing CLF KF for a number of years, unfortunately some months back, i gain a lot of weight and notice that i was taking a lot of punishing in the knees probably because of low stances plus the extra weight, now my knees hurt from time to time without making any effort at all. So for this i quitted KF. and i am inactive currently.

Should i try a different martial art wich is gentler in the legs? What style?.
Thanks in advance.

I agree that aikido would be a very good choice. Unlike what many, who have no aikido experience, think, aikido is a tough and effective martial art. This is why so much care is taken to do techniques somewhat slowly and softly while on the mat. Otherwise, severe injuries would be a given. In my dojo we had more injuries in aikido class that judo, karate and kickboxing combined. Size doesn't matter in aikido for either nage or uke. One does his best to take care of his partner.

 

[jobo]

Compliant partner stuff is something that i have seen in some dojos, it may look inocent but in the long run is endangering the very life of the student, some compliancy has its place in very early stages of training (like learning how to properly land after a throw) but if this goes all the way to Black belt level...

generally the partner needs to be compliant, or he will get a broken wrist, if / when you get a non complient attacker, they won't flip over, they will get a,damaged wrist,

 

[Buka]

Just wanted to say welcome to MartialTalk to Kissthecrapet and to AlexanderZousky. Good to have you both.

 

[skribs]

I have no way to judge your Hapkido other than as you describe it. Suppose as a very basic technique you let him grab your right wrist with his left hand. You reach down, grab the back of his hand and slip you fingers under his palm. Then you pull his hand up and into your chest, cranking it counter-clockwise as you do, and forcing his hand down into his wrist. Now you can step forward and strike him on the back of the upper arm, on the nerves there, forcing him to the ground, and strike him.

Or, when you pull his hand into your chest, you grab his wrist with your right hand, thumb down, and with your left hand on the back of his hand, forcing his hand into his wrist as you step back with your left leg. You keep pulling him down and back and kick forward to his head with your left knee. When everything is moving fast, how will he know which break fall to do to protect himself?

Now everyone else reading this is confused and certain neither technique will work in the two minutes it has taken to read (but still not understand) them, and say Hapkido must be a stupid MA. You and I, if you have learned those defenses, know they are done very quickly and in a way the opponent will have trouble resisting, even if they know which defense you are going to use. They had best know what is coming, and flow into it rather than resist. Isn't that how you were taught? If you want to practice sometimes letting them resist to a point, at speed, that is OK, as long as you know when to stop.

Because if you don't stop at the right place, or don't allow them to flow into the technique, how are you going to explain their injury? Your teacher and your opponent's family will surely want to know.

Maybe I am not understanding you?

I could be wrong about Aikido, so I hope some of the Aikido practitioners will come in and explain whether or not they practice in a way as not to injure their practice partners. Maybe not. Perhaps all techniques move the opponent in the same way.

If you resist it, yes you could be seriously hurt. However, there's other ways you can fight against it:

1. If the technique is performed incorrectly, don't just go with it because the script says to
2. If the technique is done correctly, but they do not pay attention to positioning and create an opening, go ahead and take it

If their leverage or pressure points are not correct, you should not go down.

 

[AlexanderZousky]

If you are interested in Aikido, you should choose a dojo with the combat system of Aikido because it is more useful

 

[oftheherd1]

If you resist it, yes you could be seriously hurt. However, there's other ways you can fight against it:

1. If the technique is performed incorrectly, don't just go with it because the script says to
2. If the technique is done correctly, but they do not pay attention to positioning and create an opening, go ahead and take it

If their leverage or pressure points are not correct, you should not go down.

Well, just my opinion, but I would say:

1. Even if not done correctly, it may still hurt you, especially if you try to go another than the correct way for that defense.

2. Then it simply wasn't done correctly.

How fast do you do your techniques? What would you say about the small split second you would have in my question about wrist defenses?

 

[skribs]

If you do it fast but wrong, you're just as screwed as if you did it slow plus wrong.

Usually if you do it wrong, there's no leverage or pain compliance, and no pain, either.

 

[Kissthecarpet]

I practiced a number of striking arts, something with wristlocks and grappling could be fun. I will check on a nearby Aikido dojo and see how it goes, while i am wrestling this extra kilos.
A reason I am interested in grappling arts is that i have a shorter arm reach, and for exchanging blows it could be a setback.

 

[Kababayan]

Have you considered loosing the weight?

Boxing is pretty easy on the knees.

I second the boxing idea.