Advice for hard punching with minimal padding, and still avoid ripping knuckle skin?

[Fungus]

I do kyokushin, and I avoid bulky bags or wristwraps. I like to strenghten my wrists by punching hard without support. All that is working fine and has for years.

The only reason i wear some bag gloves (not boxing gloves) is to avoid ripping the skin of the knuckels. I don't think it's the skin i want to strenghten, it's by wrists and hand strength. But the problem i have is that as i punch hard, the gloves which as skin, has friction to the knuckels inside the gloves.

I tried boxing gloves, and i tried boxing wraps but I don't like them. I like to be are bare as possible. So the compromise is thta i have put some kinesology tape ontop of my knuckles, under the gloves. This actually doe the trick - but after one hour of sweat and heavy punhcing, the loosen even fall out of the fingers! Last time I was wondering who lost tape in room, but it was me, and and after the training both my punching knuckles on both hands where bleeding and the tape was off. And during sparring, this tends to get going again and i get blood all over everyone.

So do you guys have any better tricks?
I have these type of gloves, which are the thinnest i have found that I like. I tried also several models of mma and tkd gloves buy they dont fit nice.

And I tape the knuckles, NOT hard for support, just to cover the top of hte knuckle skin. But after 30 mins it detaches. Any better ideas? I think the problem is i punch hard, maybe harder that i have to. But I like the kind of training, but the knuckle skin goes. I am considering perhaps taping around, instead of ontop and see if it helps. I do not wrap the hands, I just put one stripe litteraly ontop of the knuckles. not on the inside of hte hand.

It also occured to me that the gloves shoulgh the tighter? right now they are a bit loose.. so my hands has some wiggle room inside - is that the problem?

 

[Flying Crane]

If your knuckles scrape across the bag, the skin will tear. You need to land the punch as straight as possible. Canvas bags will tear your knuckles. Find a bag made from a different material, like vinyl. Then you can put aside the gloves and tape.

 

[isshinryuronin]

If your knuckles scrape across the bag, the skin will tear. You need to land the punch as straight as possible.

Very true.

Canvas bags will tear your knuckles.

I left a lot of skin (and blood) on my old dojo's canvas bag, but what better way to teach landing a square punch.
The same with the rope wrapped makiwara. Brings back fond memories.

 

[Flying Crane]

Very true.

I left a lot of skin (and blood) on my old dojo's canvas bag, but what better way to teach landing a square punch.
The same with the rope wrapped makiwara. Brings back fond memories.

It’s not sustainable as a training habit. The scabs take time to heal, and that is time you cannot do this type of training. Basic sanitary hygiene and courtesy says leaving your blood lying around on shared equipment and working out with people when your knuckles are a ripped-up bloody mess is going to leave you without any training partners. Maybe things were different in the past.

 

[Sammy Naur]

If your knuckles scrape across the bag, the skin will tear. You need to land the punch as straight as possible. Canvas bags will tear your knuckles. Find a bag made from a different material, like vinyl.

This is true.

Then you can put aside the gloves and tape.

Never do this.

Always tape, always wrap, and when possible, always glove.

The legions of grapplers I know whose fingers are all useless now, never realized how important it was to protect yourself at all times.

It's the "hardcore hand training", "I use a makiwara", and "my fists are iron forged) crowd that never seems to understand this.

It comes down to a basic fact: when training, you always want to avoid injury.

But in a fight, you may not have a choice.

 

[drop bear]

Quick wraps probably.

 

[Fungus]

If your knuckles scrape across the bag, the skin will tear. You need to land the punch as straight as possible. Canvas bags will tear your knuckles. Find a bag made from a different material, like vinyl. Then you can put aside the gloves and tape.

Yes, I get that. I certainly punch a bit without gloves at times, but when i beat the bag for and hour, and especially those times I focus on hard punching combos it still wears even when using gloves.

So my knuckles don't scrape the bag, I think when I do follow through deep punching into the bag, the knucles press hard on the inside of the gloves, and after 30 mins the skin give up.

Our bags are pretty good and smooth, so no canvas.

I train both hooks and straight punches. The hooks and especially uppercuts to the bag are the worst as the bag is straight, and when I simulate and uppervut i effectively lift the bag up as it's an upward strik, and that maybe is the worst as it has to be friction inside the gloves, that pulls the tape off soon, and the next time it's the skin. The skin wears more or less depending on the kinds of strikes I practice. But it's a pity to have to choose. I like the train all versions

 

[Fungus]

It’s not sustainable as a training habit. The scabs take time to heal, and that is time you cannot do this type of training. Basic sanitary hygiene and courtesy says leaving your blood lying around on shared equipment and working out with people when your knuckles are a ripped-up bloody mess is going to leave you without any training partners. Maybe things were different in the past.

Yes, this is the main problem, this is why i tend to tape things up. But the tape wears off in the heat. Trying to punch gently makes no sense. The skin itself is not a big deal, but it's not so nice to get blood everywhere, especially when your instructors wonders why his Gi is the only one full of red dots and I realize it's my hands

 

[Fungus]

Quick wraps probably.

You mean boxing wraps? like you start from the thumb and wind around wrist, knuckles?

I tried them but they are like 2.5m long, and it's way too much padding, my wrist gets way too much support and makes me loose wrist flexibility and I feel like my hands is plastered, and in case i want to grab or do a shotei, it's locked. I don't like that rigity at all, but I am sure its' great inside boxing gloves.

 

[Badhabits]

FWIW in decades of hitting bags and makiwara, I've never taped, wrapped or worn gloves. My hands and fingers are just fine.
However, I've also never found a solution to knuckle skin tearing at some point.

 

[Flying Crane]

Never do this.

Always tape, always wrap, and when possible, always glove.

Disagree, but that’s fine. I’ve never had an injury in spite of never wrapping and never using gloves for decades. It is not a difficult task to safely work on the heavy bag without those protections. It is a more honest strike that tells you what you are capable of without protection that can hide problems in your technique.

If you are training for full-contact competition you will use wraps and gloves per the rules of the competition. So in that case it makes sense to train that way. In an extended fight like a competition you may well injure your hands. Using that protection makes sense. In a self-defense situation that will likely be over within a minute or two, probably far less, you are almost guaranteed to NOT have that protection, so you need to train without it and make sure your technique does not rely on protection to avoid injury.

 

[Flying Crane]

You mean boxing wraps? like you start from the thumb and wind around wrist, knuckles?

I tried them but they are like 2.5m long, and it's way too much padding, my wrist gets way too much support and makes me loose wrist flexibility and I feel like my hands is plastered, and in case i want to grab or do a shotei, it's locked. I don't like that rigity at all, but I am sure its' great inside boxing gloves.

The wraps also give you support and protection that can hide problems with your technique that could lead to injury if you ever punch something without the wrap. Like any combat or self-defense situation outside of a competition.

The wraps also change the shape of your fist into something other than what you want it to be for a bare-knuckle punch. When wrapped and supported and covered with a glove, that protection works. When those things are removed, you find you don’t know how to land a bare-knuckle punch when you need to, which again, is anything outside of a competition.

 

[isshinryuronin]

FWIW in decades of hitting bags and makiwara, I've never taped, wrapped or worn gloves. My hands and fingers are just fine.
However, I've also never found a solution to knuckle skin tearing at some point.

Same here. Knuckle skin grows back quickly, at least it did in my teens and twenties. Making proper contact mitigated damage, but there was often some skin loss, and less often slight bleeding, and that was usually at the tail end of the practice so not much contamination (which back in those days was not a concern).

 

[Buka]

Everyone has preferences. I don’t care for canvas bags, I preferred good leather bags in the dojo, maybe a couple of vinyl bags (sacrificial lambs)

I’ve had my hands wrapped by a lot of professional trainers, every single one of them did it a different way, even guys from the same gym.

Personally, I like under-wrap around my hands and wrists first, then hockey tape over that.

I like small strips of the tape cut and waiting, to go front to back between my fingers and around my wrist,

I like to wrap around the tape inside my palm with the strips as well. Making a little cloth bar inside your palm like the old fashioned bag gloves with a bar in your palm. (Which I always thought completely sucked.)

I had my hands wrapped every time I competed and once in a while when I was training. I didn’t do it more often while training because it’s a royal pain in the ash.

I think if someone is in for the long haul they need to try every bag, glove, wrap and method. And be barehanded as much as gloved or wrapped.

How else will you know?

 

[isshinryuronin]

And be barehanded as much as gloved or wrapped.

Wise. I think there's a danger on using any kind of support or padding extensively (this include braces, canes, walkers...). Once you get used to relying on them, this reliance tends to grow, and your natural ability to operate without them diminish. A psychological dependence can develop as well. Sometimes they are absolutely needed in case of injury, but I would make their use as temporary as possible just as I would with a potentially addictive drug.

I can see wraps for extended sport training and repeated heavy contact, but as you say, some of this should be done "au natural." (I'm talking as far as hands and wrist are concerned .)

 

[drop bear]

You mean boxing wraps? like you start from the thumb and wind around wrist, knuckles?

I tried them but they are like 2.5m long, and it's way too much padding, my wrist gets way too much support and makes me loose wrist flexibility and I feel like my hands is plastered, and in case i want to grab or do a shotei, it's locked. I don't like that rigity at all, but I am sure its' great inside boxing gloves.

Brand picked at random.

 

[Sammy Naur]

FWIW in decades of hitting bags and makiwara, I've never taped, wrapped or worn gloves. My hands and fingers are just fine.
However, I've also never found a solution to knuckle skin tearing at some point.

You've never fought full contact? You've just hit bags and boards?

People who trained to hit other people don't worry about their skin tearing, they focus on protecting their limbs and endpoints.

 

[Sammy Naur]

Disagree, but that’s fine. I’ve never had an injury in spite of never wrapping and never using gloves for decades. It is not a difficult task to safely work on the heavy bag without those protections. It is a more honest strike that tells you what you are capable of without protection that can hide problems in your technique.

"Never had an injury" again, implies you haven't trained for full contact. When you do, you never train on a heavy bag without protection, just like you don't go into a combat sport environment without it.

People in boxing, Muay Thai gyms etc. (doesn't matter the national style) are scolded for doing that, by people who know better.

You're the second person (in a row, after @Badhabits ) who claimed "decades" of not needing it. I'm noticing a pattern here, of people who dismiss basic full contact hand to hand fighting knowledge with "I've got decades of experience".

 

[Sammy Naur]

I think if someone is in for the long haul they need to try every bag, glove, wrap and method. And be barehanded as much as gloved or wrapped.

How else will you know?

Barehanded now and then on a bag is fine but, "long haul"? Nope.

Tape, wrap, glove. Icy hot, rinse repeat.

I can't believe this conversation about people "hitting the bag" or anything else for "decades" is even being considered serious in a discussion about hand to hand fighting.

But I know that most of the people claiming this really don't understand what they're saying. They are living on years and years of pretending they're hitting some animate object, thinking it's anything like hitting a human being.

Most of us will break our hands hitting anything hard, including myself, without protection. That's the damned truth, and anybody here claiming their martial art will protect them from that is delusional.

This is boxing 101.

 

[isshinryuronin]

Most of us will break our hands hitting anything hard, including myself, without protection.

Tell that to a TKD guy who breaks 3 or 4 boards as part of their regular training, or an Okinawan guy who punches a rope-wrapped reinforced 2x4 a hundred times. I think these things are at least as hard as a human rib or face. But yeah, you're right, most people not training this way would have a risk of injury.