"A Real Life Fight Club"

[Karazenpo]

Anyone see "The O'Reilly Factor" Friday night. They showed film clips of these street gangs who record actual bare knuckle empty hand fighting where just about anything goes. The show referred to it as a real life "Fight Club". I think it's really important as martial artists to review these tapes because, essentially, these are the type of realistic assaults you can expect from the the real 'bad boys' of the street. It is truly American street fighting. Don't get me wrong, I don't condone it but I feel every law enforcment officer and/or martial artist can benefit from viewing it. It's like seeing what the other guy has got, if you know what I mean. Whenever I hear of a real life fight or assault caught on tape I analyze it. Good idea, I think, what say you?

 

[arnisador]

I don't know how real these are, but I agree in general--watching things like "COPS" brings some insight into what actually happens in real fights. One thing I've noticed is how prevalent the wide right roundhouse punch is--it's almost always the fight starter, it seems. If your art doesn't teacjh you an effective defense against it, worry!

Of course, we must ask--are the ones that make it onto tape exemplary of a typical altercation, or is brawling not what we're apt to be caught up in? Still, it provides useful info., I feel.

 

[Karazenpo]

Yeah, I totally agree on the right roundhouse punch. I've viewed many tapes of real life fights & assaults caught on tape, usually from news reports so they are legit and in every one is that right roundhouse to some degree, some wider than others which I refer as 'haymakers".

 

[pknox]

Which is actually pretty ironic, since many traditional MA schools train to defend against a haymaker. One of the criticisms they often get from the reality/street crowd is that the punch is unrealistic, and rarely if ever happens in a real fight. Kind of makes you think.

 

[Karazenpo]

I've been a cop since 1977, counting that and even as a kid growing up, I would have to say the wide right roundhouser or haymaker has been and still is pretty popular. Just a little while ago all the network news stations showed some guy minding his own business, standing on a street corner when a gang member came up right in front of him and threw a wide, downtown-type haymaker and knocked the guy out cold. The other gang members filmed it and were obviously caught a short time later. This took place in Rhode Island not too far from where I train.

 

[pknox]

Exactly. I wonder where that criticism comes from then, because it seems a bit unfounded.

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Originally posted by Karazenpo
Just a little while ago all the network news stations showed some guy minding his own business, standing on a street corner when a gang member came up right in front of him and threw a wide, downtown-type haymaker and knocked the guy out cold. The other gang members filmed it and were obviously caught a short time later. This took place in Rhode Island not too far from where I train.

i saw this in Fox News channel FAIR and BALANCE

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Originally posted by Karazenpo
Anyone see "The O'Reilly Factor" Friday night. They showed film clips of these street gangs who record actual bare knuckle empty hand fighting where just about anything goes. The show referred to it as a real life "Fight Club". I think it's really important as martial artists to review these tapes because, essentially, these are the type of realistic assaults you can expect from the the real 'bad boys' of the street. It is truly American street fighting. Don't get me wrong, I don't condone it but I feel every law enforcment officer and/or martial artist can benefit from viewing it. It's like seeing what the other guy has got, if you know what I mean. Whenever I hear of a real life fight or assault caught on tape I analyze it. Good idea, I think, what say you?

what have we seen from this tape is the brutality of reality and we better are ready for it.

good discussion and *reminder* for those who don't train hard

 

[Karazenpo]

CoolKempoDude, You said it all, my friend. Ain't it the truth!

 

[Elfan]

Originally posted by pknox
Exactly. I wonder where that criticism comes from then, because it seems a bit unfounded.

In many kenpo school at least, there is a tendency to practice as if the attack as a "step-through punch." They step with the punch. However, from what I have seen of video's like these the attack would more accurately be described as a "punch-step through." They swing as hard as they can and the momentum carries them through. I belive it may be this disparity that people are ciritical of.

 

[Zepp]

Didn't see O'Reilly Factor last night, and when I went to the website for the show, there was no mention of the story that I could find. (Maybe it isn't up yet.) http://www.foxnews.com/oreilly/

Anyone know if that story, or a clip of it will be online eventually?

 

[Karazenpo]

From my perspective there are two general ways an untrained individual will punch you and karate systems teach a refined version of that. For an example, let's take Shotokan & Master Funakoshi. Now, in Taikyoku Shodan (some in Shaolin Kempo know as #1 Pinan) the 'step in punch' also called the 'lunge punch' is introduced, where one half moons into a forward stance with the punching arm out in front with the forward leg. If you take a close look at that you will see that's the way many street fights start with the aggressor stepping in and throwing a punch toward the head. Shotokan next introduces the 'reverse punch', Funakoshi giving it that name due to the fact the legs are reversed at the completion of the punch verses the lunge punch. This is the other way many untrained or even trained for that matter individuals swing at you by leaving the punching arm at the rear leg of the stance (sometimes this version is done with a 'drag step' or 'fencer's shuffle' to close the gap). Regardless, it looks like karate took the two general ways most people use their fists when engaging another, cleaned it up and included them in the basic framework of the systems.

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Originally posted by Zepp
Didn't see O'Reilly Factor last night, and when I went to the website for the show, there was no mention of the story that I could find. (Maybe it isn't up yet.) http://www.foxnews.com/oreilly/

Anyone know if that story, or a clip of it will be online eventually?

i don't think all of his show is ONLINE. You can ask FOX about buying that tape so that you can watch at home.

try his FEES *membership* to see if it is ONLINE. If not, give them a call and ask about obtaining it

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Originally posted by Karazenpo
CoolKempoDude, You said it all, my friend. Ain't it the truth!

absolutely and it would be nice to have this kind of discussion MORE in the future so that we can *expect* what will happen in life.

the way you *practice* in dojo is completely different when you are on the streets

in dojo, you CONTROL. In the streat, there is NO control

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Elfan
there is a tendency to practice as if the attack as a "step-through punch." They step with the punch. However, from what I have seen of video's like these the attack would more accurately be described as a "punch-step through." They swing as hard as they can and the momentum carries them through.

Yes, I think there's a lot of truth to that. Related to that, I think that many dojo attackers give an arm-only swing that doesn't have the power of the "punch-step through" type of attack, as you put it. It could collapse a number of traditional blocks, in my opinion--but would be relatively easy to avoid if one were aware and mobile.