Your thoughts on these locks?

[Wing Woo Gar]

There is usually some work on technique progression (if you hit resistance on kote gaeshi, reverse to kokyu nage). Unfortunately, the mindset often continues into that kind of drill, where the reversal isn’t practiced with real resistance.

Part of the problem is inherent in the pursuit of aiki. Aiki development is not an efficient path for fight training - it takes a lot of time and effort to develop the aiki principles, for a marginal increase in fighting ability. Leaving out the aiki, and just focusing on solid fighting fundamentals is a more efficient path to competence.

But some of us really like the subtlety and challenge of aiki training, so we prefer that path. The problem is that means we aren’t looking to progress our respective art to the most efficient and effective techniques, etc. That can lead to ignoring realities of combat, in favor of developing aiki.

I know nothing of aiki per se. Pardon my guess, but I would say that in your everyday life a developed aiki is more often useful than the most efficacious combat techniques. Please advise.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I know nothing of aiki per se. Pardon my guess, but I would say that in your everyday life a developed aiki is more often useful than the most efficacious combat techniques. Please advise.

It can be, though probably not moreso than any other well-developed physical trait (like strength). I certainly use aiki principles pretty commonly in everyday activities, since they're well ingrained in my movements. And sometimes they let me seem stronger than I am.

As I refer to them, the aiki principles are a set of body mechanics that make some techniques operate differently than if you do those same techniques without the aiki principles in place. There are some techniques I know that I have a hard time understanding how they can be of much use without aiki principles behind them, and others operate well with or without the aiki principles. Some I know of don't make sense (to me) to try to force aiki principles into them, as normal grappling/throwing mechanics operate so well.

 

[dunc]

I'd love to see how you set that up in sparring. I think I've been caught by it once in all my years of sparring and I've maybe pulled it off 2 or 3 times, mostly against much less experienced sparring partners. I do sometimes find it useful to threaten the lock just to force a reaction that will open up other options.

Hiya

This is the general approach I use for standing grappling
The key points are to a) rotate strongly to make them step and b) put a lot of weight onto their arm (similar in principle to the russian tie) to stop their footwork

I find even when they successfully resist their structure is broken and you get good options to change

And reiterating the point that applying these kind of locks without using strikes is very much the exception rather than the rule

 

[JowGaWolf]

And reiterating the point that applying these kind of locks without using strikes is very much the exception rather than the rule

Is this done in a grappling only environment or is it done in an environment that has both striking and grappling?

 

[dunc]

Is this done in a grappling only environment or is it done in an environment that has both striking and grappling?

Grappling only
When striking is allowed there more options and the general approach is to set up the opponent using strikes & other movements to allow for a sudden attack to the wrist when it is most exposed

 

[marvin8]

Is this done in a grappling only environment or is it done in an environment that has both striking and grappling?

So we can look at things like BJJ, and a bit of wrestling. And they pull off ridiculously complicated moves. But they achieve that by setting up those moves three or four moves ahead. And basically trapping the guy in to a position he can't defend.

To get a wrist lock in that Aikido way they will need to create a system with the same sort of depth.

And he isn't. His commentary on striking is correct but simplistic. Fine for self defence. Not fine for creating a situation where you can make them expose their arm.

I agree. The process is simple with three or four steps. It's the techniques that can get complicated. Both high level grappling and striking use similar steps (as I've posted). An example (without video) in a striking environment...

Step 1: Lead the opponent — Get opponent moving with footwork, change direction, intercept opponent's movement.
Step 2: Obtain Wrist/Hand Control — Occupy opponent’s left hand, feint left side neck grab to distract opponent’s attention away from right hand, grab right hand.
Step 3: Perform waki gatame to kote gaeshi.

Some entry and locks videos.

TRITAC Martial Arts
Oct 23, 2020

In this episode of Flow of Combat, we're going to review many variations of Japanese Jujutsu influenced arm locks or arm breaks. The arm locks we will explore are: Ude Gatame, Reverse Ude Garami, Kote Mawashi, Juji Gatame, Kote Gaeshi and many variations.

Here's a breakdown of the combat jiu-jitsu arm locks we will explore:

00:00 - 00:23 Intro to Arm Locks
00:24 - 01:11 Kill The Lead Entrance to Arm Lock Attacks
01:12 - 02:00 Standing Kimura Attacks In Unarmed Self Defense
02:01 - 02:59 Ude Gatame Arm Lock Entrance And Attack
03:00 - 04:45 - Kote Mawashi entrance and attack, plus variations of wrist control / attack.
04:46 - 06:56 Shiho Nage or some variation of it and I can't remember the name, but some Aikido guy will definitely comment and tell me which one it is. 06:57 - 09:47 Jam Entry To Elbow Clears To Ude Gatame Arm Break
09:48 - 12:47 TRITAC-Unarmed "Wrap N Snap" Series to Ude Gatame
12:48 - 19:08 Stick Attack - Jam Defense to Osoto Gari to Standing Juji Gatame 19:09 - 22:44 Stick Attack - Split Frame Defense to Ude Gatame TRITAC-Unarmed Variation
22:45 - 23:35 Stick Attack - Split Frame Defense to Ude Gatame - TRITAC-Jitsu #1
23:36 - 24:37 Stick Attack - Split Frame Defense to Ude Gatame - TRITAC-Jitsu #2
24:38 - 25:44 Knife Stab Attack - Frame 4 - Kote Mawashi Variation

TRITAC Martial Arts
Apr 22, 2020

In the inaugural episode of the Flow of Combat, we're going to look at 3 Japanese Jujutsu Wrist and Elbow joint locks / attacks for modern sport and no-rules combat. The jiu jitsu techniques would be considered "Small Joint Manipulation" techniques; even though, they have a great effect on the overall structure of the body itself.

The 3 small joint lock attacks are:

00:37 - Kote Gaeshi - common wrist twist technique, learn ways to apply the Kote Gaeshi in self defense or grappling.
08:34 - Waki Gatame - very powerful elbow lock using a "wing" action. Add a slide to it and it becomes a very "destructive" techniques.
21:29 - Ude Gatame - a very versatile elbow / shoulder (for space/stabilization).

 

[JowGaWolf]

I agree. The process is simple with three or four steps. It's the techniques that can get complicated. Both high level grappling and striking use similar steps (as I've posted). An example (without video) in a striking environment...

Step 1: Lead the opponent — Get opponent moving with footwork, change direction, intercept opponent's movement.
Step 2: Obtain Wrist/Hand Control — Occupy opponent’s left hand, feint left side neck grab to distract opponent’s attention away from right hand, grab right hand.
Step 3: Perform waki gatame to kote gaeshi.

Some entry and locks videos.

TRITAC Martial Arts
Oct 23, 2020

In this episode of Flow of Combat, we're going to review many variations of Japanese Jujutsu influenced arm locks or arm breaks. The arm locks we will explore are: Ude Gatame, Reverse Ude Garami, Kote Mawashi, Juji Gatame, Kote Gaeshi and many variations.

Here's a breakdown of the combat jiu-jitsu arm locks we will explore:

00:00 - 00:23 Intro to Arm Locks
00:24 - 01:11 Kill The Lead Entrance to Arm Lock Attacks
01:12 - 02:00 Standing Kimura Attacks In Unarmed Self Defense
02:01 - 02:59 Ude Gatame Arm Lock Entrance And Attack
03:00 - 04:45 - Kote Mawashi entrance and attack, plus variations of wrist control / attack.
04:46 - 06:56 Shiho Nage or some variation of it and I can't remember the name, but some Aikido guy will definitely comment and tell me which one it is. 06:57 - 09:47 Jam Entry To Elbow Clears To Ude Gatame Arm Break
09:48 - 12:47 TRITAC-Unarmed "Wrap N Snap" Series to Ude Gatame
12:48 - 19:08 Stick Attack - Jam Defense to Osoto Gari to Standing Juji Gatame 19:09 - 22:44 Stick Attack - Split Frame Defense to Ude Gatame TRITAC-Unarmed Variation
22:45 - 23:35 Stick Attack - Split Frame Defense to Ude Gatame - TRITAC-Jitsu #1
23:36 - 24:37 Stick Attack - Split Frame Defense to Ude Gatame - TRITAC-Jitsu #2
24:38 - 25:44 Knife Stab Attack - Frame 4 - Kote Mawashi Variation

TRITAC Martial Arts
Apr 22, 2020

In the inaugural episode of the Flow of Combat, we're going to look at 3 Japanese Jujutsu Wrist and Elbow joint locks / attacks for modern sport and no-rules combat. The jiu jitsu techniques would be considered "Small Joint Manipulation" techniques; even though, they have a great effect on the overall structure of the body itself.

The 3 small joint lock attacks are:

00:37 - Kote Gaeshi - common wrist twist technique, learn ways to apply the Kote Gaeshi in self defense or grappling.
08:34 - Waki Gatame - very powerful elbow lock using a "wing" action. Add a slide to it and it becomes a very "destructive" techniques.
21:29 - Ude Gatame - a very versatile elbow / shoulder (for space/stabilization).

Good analysis. When I think of Rokas, I can see that he lacks ant type of setup for the Aikido technique he wants use. I know he uses setups in MMA but he hasn't made that connection for Aikido.