Your Fighting Tip

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

LOL, for someone who seems to like calling me a troll, you sure do like talking to me.

I wouldn't want you to feed troll like me so I'll just ignore your long post too and just talk to someone like Flying Crane, who's a reasonable and mature, MA'ist.

Later bro....and sorry you had to type that giant essay.

correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it EDIT: Xue Sheng and Bluewaveschool who called you a troll, not himura? If so, you lost your excuse not to reply, time to find a new one, or, you know, reply. That could work to.

As for your comment about Tyson..bad example bro. Tyson has stated that boxing is different then a streetfight (now i know you'll just say he's a boxer not a MMAist, but you brought him up not me). He has been in streetfights, and in fact, referring to one of the non-ring fights he has been in (and admittedly won), he said "I hadn't been in a streetfight in seven years, I was getting scared". If they are so similar, why would the undisputed heavyweight champ of the world be scared of a streetfight?

Also, speaking of Tyson reminded me of a recent thread we had, started by Russian (in beginners corner listed under actually training at home if you want a reference), he mentioned that he's the best boxer in his gym, but he "is not capable of defending himself", and it's *always* multiple attackers and *always* a surprise. Neither of these are things MMA focuses on. And if it was so successful, why would someone with boxing experience want to leave it to go to a TMA or a SD oriented art, instead of just adding BJJ to his curriculum?

 

[chinto]

No, they represent an evolution in combat SPORT training. If you get a chance to look at some tournament sparring from the 60s and 70s, you may notice that it doesn't resemble the current stuff much at all. Somewhere, people stopped transferring style to fighting... but that's a whole 'nother topic. Something's gone off if what you do under pressure bears no relation to what you do in training... (By the way, you might want to look more closely at the rules and environment. The early UFC events favored grapplers...)

My tip early was to know what you're involved in: is it some sort of status fight, or is it real violence? They aren't the same, and responses that work well in one won't be as successful in the other. Violence is likely to be on you before you realize it, for most people. Rory Miller did a great job summarizing the difference: Violence happens closer, harder, faster, and more surprisingly than you expect. At work -- I'm paid to be on the surprising side. If I anticipate you're going to fight me -- I'll stack the deck every which way I can. I'll bring buddies. I'll use unfair advantages like the Taser. Guess what? Predators will do the same. They'll bash your head in with a club before they take your wallet. But a monkey dance or status fight? There's almost a script and ritual to it -- because it is every bit as ritualized as two rams bashing their heads against each other to win a mate. Know the difference...

I agree, if its some kind of status fight or about dominance you can usually talk your way out of it. Personally if I can not walk away or talk my way out of it, it is then an SD situation and possible deadly force situation till shown other wise. so when you see the monkey dance start, opt out. but yes always assume that the other is a predator concealed in the persona of a non predator. the big one is, if it goes either way, you are managing to talk your way out or walk away, proceed on the assumption that it is very very serious and your life may well be at stake and that you missed something resulting in it going sour till your completely clear of it.

 

[chinto]

correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it EDIT: Xue Sheng and Bluewaveschool who called you a troll, not himura? If so, you lost your excuse not to reply, time to find a new one, or, you know, reply. That could work to.

As for your comment about Tyson..bad example bro. Tyson has stated that boxing is different then a streetfight (now i know you'll just say he's a boxer not a MMAist, but you brought him up not me). He has been in streetfights, and in fact, referring to one of the non-ring fights he has been in (and admittedly won), he said "I hadn't been in a streetfight in seven years, I was getting scared". If they are so similar, why would the undisputed heavyweight champ of the world be scared of a streetfight?

Also, speaking of Tyson reminded me of a recent thread we had, started by Russian (in beginners corner listed under actually training at home if you want a reference), he mentioned that he's the best boxer in his gym, but he "is not capable of defending himself", and it's *always* multiple attackers and *always* a surprise. Neither of these are things MMA focuses on. And if it was so successful, why would someone with boxing experience want to leave it to go to a TMA or a SD oriented art, instead of just adding BJJ to his curriculum?

Because tje sports are just that, and predicated on rules and not survival. The TMA and SD oriented arts are predicated on ambush by the attacker, and always more then one attacker and often they may be armed. And I know boxers who are very very tough who say they would not want to fight a good TMA guy on the street. when asked why they say " because that man will literally KILL ME. Which points out that combat sports do all they can for " fighter safety" TMA and such do not! they are predicated on your life being in jeopardy and so lethal force possibly being necessary to preserve your own or some others life.

 

[Mz1]

In a street fight there are no rules the other Guy
Is trying to kill you.

FALSE. Either you've bought into or you are, the one selling, the current TMA/SD schtick by trying to scare people into joining your TMA/SD gyms. Or you've never been in too many street fights. Because most street fights aren't fights to the death at all. There are thousands of videos on the internet where street fights are just a bunch of sloppy slugs, going crazy with haymakers for a good 5-10 seconds until they gas out. Or it's a hug fest on the ground....and rarely does any one even gets eye gouged, bitten, or whatever.

No fights to the death. Usually not even a fight to serious injuries. Most of the worse cases are fights to the KO, after which the fight is broken up by bystanders (just like a Ref in the ring). or even the winner stop attacking on his own.

Maybe 1 out of a 1000 streetfight video does someone dies, but that's usually some gang attack on 1....where neither MMA nor SD/TMA would help but Track & Field, definitely.

In sport martial arts the object is to win.
In a street fight no one to break up the fight, no corner

Knocking someone out in the ring/cage is just as effective as knocking them out in the street.


Man to throw in the towel, ni time limit, no rest.
In a street fight you may fight someone bigger,faster then you.
If you are sick or broke your hand no reschedule fight.

Your opponent may carry a weapon and as soon as you
Shoot into his legs he stabs you in the kidney.
In a street fight multiple attacker, curbs and bricks can be easily

I carry at least 1 knife and a 9mm. Think I'm going to play chopsocky in the streets when someone pulls out a knife? I had a giant knife pulled on me once and I picked up a pipe (construction in the area). No fight to the death. We went on our separate ways (all the while a security guard was watching from afar hoping to see some action).

Used against you as you grapple for that arm bar.

Why would I armbar someone when I like to knock them out instead?

In real life encounters you are often robbery from behind.
If you are not training for this type of scenarios and more focused
on rules in a ring your not training for self defense in a street encounter.

You obviously don't fight nor spar for KO's often. Otherwise you'd know that it sharpens your ninja skills tremendously. Especially if you wear headgear as it hinders your peripheral vision causing you to be much more cautious of hooks and haymakers; as they're coming in from the blind spots caused by the headgear. An experienced fighter is way, way more skilled than the average play fighting TMA/SD MA'ist who don't fight nor spar med-hard every week. The more you fight, the more alert and aware you are of threats and footwork, etc. will come with such dedicated training.

 

[Mz1]

That I'm paranoid goes without saying. :lfao:

On the other hand, so does the fact that you and Alex would ignore the reality of mindset in combat. Not surprised at all....:lfao:

(Of course, it also conveniently allows both of you to ignore the absolute sillines of claiming to be trained bu Japanese judoka and in Danzan ryu being a reason for not knowing what "randori" is .....:: )

Or that you should re-read what I wrote or ask someone to help you with identifying sarcasm, thanks.

 

[Mz1]

Oh dear god. JKD is alive and well, thank you. What do you think of as a 'ninja strike' then, other than a sarcastic and frankly insulting way to address anything outside of the MMA sport syllabus?

JKD can and does feature techniques and principles from all of the major arts that constitute the core of MMA and more. I don't think you understand what you are talking about, and to write off a whole system as 'fizzled out' gives some indication of how your preconceptions have limited your learning ability to date.

Good luck with your future career, an attitude like yours will only get you so far in life.

Gnarlie

I didn't say JKD is dead, just that it fizzled (just like Bartitsu). JDK could have been as big as MMA right now had it went the sporty route rather than the death-touch one (like that better than ninja-strike?). But you can't tell me it went very far at all considering how popular and profitable Kung-Fu was right after Enter the Dragon became a worldwide hit. Then in the 80's, it was TKD McDojos that sprouted up everywhere. Where was JKD? You obviously just got all wound up just because I said fizzled and neglected to read what I wrote more carefully.

 

[Mz1]

No, they represent an evolution in combat SPORT training. If you get a chance to look at some tournament sparring from the 60s and 70s, you may notice that it doesn't resemble the current stuff much at all. Somewhere, people stopped transferring style to fighting... but that's a whole 'nother topic. Something's gone off if what you do under pressure bears no relation to what you do in training...

You say tomato I guess. Sounds like we're saying the same thing.

(By the way, you might want to look more closely at the rules and environment. The early UFC events favored grapplers...)

Tell me how it favored grapplers.

My tip early was to know what you're involved in: is it some sort of status fight, or is it real violence? They aren't the same, and responses that work well in one won't be as successful in the other. Violence is likely to be on you before you realize it, for most people. Rory Miller did a great job summarizing the difference: Violence happens closer, harder, faster, and more surprisingly than you expect. At work -- I'm paid to be on the surprising side. If I anticipate you're going to fight me -- I'll stack the deck every which way I can. I'll bring buddies. I'll use unfair advantages like the Taser. Guess what? Predators will do the same. They'll bash your head in with a club before they take your wallet. But a monkey dance or status fight? There's almost a script and ritual to it -- because it is every bit as ritualized as two rams bashing their heads against each other to win a mate. Know the difference...

Not sure who Rory Miller is, but he's not the final authority on this subject. Fighting MMA has way more sharpened my alertness, reflex, skills, etc. compared to my old TKD days of light sparring. Play fighting in SD classes is probably not going to help as much neither. I used to live in Baltimore, DC, etc...you don't have to tell me about being aware of sudden violence. I love weapons. I always carry knives at least and my 9mm in States that reciprocates my CCW. I have guns strategically placed throughout my house, including the bathroom, should I get attacked while doing my business. You think I'm going to play sports MMA against someone in a dark alley when I have a gun + knives?

 

[Mz1]

Fighting in the K1 doesnt mean youre a Kickboxer - It means Youre competing in Kickboxing. Much like Andy Hug.

Kickboxing, technically comes from Karate. But it's also a generic term now. Patrick Smith is certainly a Kickboxer just as much as he's also a Boxer. TKD is listed because that's his root.

 

[bluewaveschool]

I figured as much as you believe your crap smells like roses, I'd have to explain it to you.

 

[Mz1]

ok if you are into combative sports you may have some kind of valid point. but some of us are not into that, but into survival in the street situation. If you think that some how the UFC is anything like a real SD situation, I am sad for you.

I'm sad for you too as you've bought into this TMA/SD marketing schtick of fear mongering...to scare students and ladies into paying good money to train play fighting. Luckily, violent crimes rarely happens in general considering the chances, so most SD students usually never need to test out whether or not their training really works. But I bet if someone were to punch them in the face one day in the street, they'd freak out in fear as they've never been hit at full force in the face before in SD class.

UFC and such = rounds, a mat, a Ref and good lighting, and your life is not in jeopardy intentionally.

The fight still starts out with both fighters trying to knock the other one out. A KO in the UFC is just as good as a KO in the street. They both involve the exertion of maximum effort and power towards trying to knock the other guy's head clean off.

SD situation on the street= run if you can, talk your way out if you can, and if you fight go for broke! Because your life is literally at stake!

And you don't think a UFC fighter is going for broke by throwing all the power that he has towards knocking out his opponent?

To loose does not equal a loss on your fight record, but your provable major injury and or your death!

Not every situation is going to be life or death. I've been in many street altercations. I used to bounce at a club too. The more trained and experienced I am at fighting, the less I need to really mess someone up, or worse, kill him and go to jail, get sued, go on death row, etc. People who don't fight often, usually get all excited when such situation arises and are probably more likely to go into bloodlust. Trained fighters are usually calm and collected.

So, to say that some how if you are not trying to be one of the UFC and similar cage fighters you are not training or well trained is kinda ridicules.. TMA was originally founded and developed for survival.

A UFC fighter putting his elbow through someone's face in the cage, works just as good in the street. Who's going to be better and more powerful at doing such, a UFC fighter who fights for real or a TMA light sparring guy who only spars light all the time?

Does that mean that MMA and such is invalid? NO, just it is a bunch of things taken from TMA and modified for combative sport use in a prize fight. Each has its uses. for myself I am interested in defending me and mine, and could care less about the cage matches.

If you don't fight often, how do you know that you're good at it and can protect your family should the situation arises?

 

[Cyriacus]

Kickboxing, technically comes from Karate. But it's also a generic term now. Patrick Smith is certainly a Kickboxer just as much as he's also a Boxer. TKD is listed because that's his root.

And boxing means fighting. Therefore, I am also a boxer.

 

[elder999]

Tell me how it favored grapplers.

No time limits. No standing up after prolonged "inaction" on the ground.The mat surface favored grappling as well: it was softer, and not that great a foundation for striking. All that being said, most other fighters weren't at all prepared for what Gracie jiu-jitsu was, and most of them had no real ground game.

Not sure who Rory Miller is, but he's not the final authority on this subject.

:lfao: :lfao: :lfao:

Or that you should re-read what I wrote or ask someone to help you with identifying sarcasm, thanks.

Me? Have trouble identifying sarcasm? :lfao: :lfao:

 

[Mz1]

correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it EDIT: Xue Sheng and Bluewaveschool who called you a troll, not himura? If so, you lost your excuse not to reply, time to find a new one, or, you know, reply. That could work to.

Bzzzzt. Wrong. Post #215 "Wow Mz1, bravo for all your astounding observations. I barely even know where to begin and am debating whether or not I even should address what you said, because now I do believe you are merely trolling."

As for your comment about Tyson..bad example bro. Tyson has stated that boxing is different then a streetfight (now i know you'll just say he's a boxer not a MMAist, but you brought him up not me).

My comment was that his skills as a Boxer is applicable in the street.

He has been in streetfights, and in fact, referring to one of the non-ring fights he has been in (and admittedly won), he said "I hadn't been in a streetfight in seven years, I was getting scared". If they are so similar, why would the undisputed heavyweight champ of the world be scared of a streetfight?

Obviously he was working on his PR. Right around that time he was being accused of rape and such. He's also has a long history of spousal abuse. Or did you really think that Tyson was really scared. Wait you did, didn't you?

Also, speaking of Tyson reminded me of a recent thread we had, started by Russian (in beginners corner listed under actually training at home if you want a reference), he mentioned that he's the best boxer in his gym, but he "is not capable of defending himself", and it's *always* multiple attackers and *always* a surprise. Neither of these are things MMA focuses on. And if it was so successful, why would someone with boxing experience want to leave it to go to a TMA or a SD oriented art, instead of just adding BJJ to his curriculum?

So this anonymous Russian Boxer guy and his personal experience (which could all be lies) is now the benchmark and final authority on this subject & debate now?

 

[Mz1]

The TMA and SD oriented arts are predicated on ambush by the attacker, and always more then one attacker and often they may be armed. And I know boxers who are very very tough who say they would not want to fight a good TMA guy on the street. when asked why they say " because that man will literally KILL ME.

I think I saw this movie too.

Which points out that combat sports do all they can for " fighter safety" TMA and such do not! they are predicated on your life being in jeopardy and so lethal force possibly being necessary to preserve your own or some others life.

If an MMA fighter who decides to mug you in the street, attacks you and knocks you out with an elbow to your face. How is this not effective? And as your body lays unconscious on the ground, he can either take your money and leave or he can stomp on your head until your skull caves in and you die, if he wanted to. Or did you think that there was some kind of chip implanted into the MMA fighter's brain, by his MMA gym, that prevents him from ever breaking MMA sports fighting rules while in the streets?

 

[Mz1]

I figured as much as you believe your crap smells like roses, I'd have to explain it to you.

Sorry that my sarcasm made you mad.

 

[Mz1]

And boxing means fighting. Therefore, I am also a boxer.

Sure, I don't have a problem with that, knock yourself out....not literally (I know this is your weak spot).

 

[Mz1]

No time limits. No standing up after prolonged "inaction" on the ground.

Sounds like it favored towards being as close as possible to a real fight to me. Isn't that what most of you TMA/SD want? And look how bad Gracie mopped the floor with all of youse

The mat surface favored grappling as well: it was softer, and not that great a foundation for striking.

And the softer mat surface could be argued to help cushion the strikers' head as he's slammed on it by the grappler. But I kind of do agree with the mat situation as I do recall a standup fighter complaining about it in an article somewhere when the early UFC's were going on.

All that being said, most other fighters weren't at all prepared for what Gracie jiu-jitsu was, and most of them had no real ground game.

Who's fault is that? How can it be the UFC's fault?

Me? Have trouble identifying sarcasm? :lfao: :lfao:

Yes.

 

[elder999]

Sounds like it favored towards being as close as possible to a real fight to me. Isn't that what most of you TMA/SD want? And look how bad Gracie mopped the floor with all of youse

While I have a background in TMA, I'm hardly one of "youse." I'm something else entirely. More importantly, your saying that it "favored towards being as close to a real fight to me," pretty much says that you probably really don't know a thing about "real fights," because they don't last 20-25 minutes. They're more like 30 seconds, maybe a little more, absurd youtube videos of drunken brawling thugs notwithstanding.


Of course, all of this noise about "stikers vs. grapplers," early UFC vs. Fertatta UFC," and "sport vs. self-defense" is still just that: noise. Even in sports, it comes down to mindset overall. Case in point: I boxed Golden Gloves, about a million years ago. I'd done okay in amateur boxing, done well against collegiate boxers, and-at 16-gave the show, back in New York, a go. My dad-who'd been around boxing since the 40's, tried his best to discourage me, but I was pretty determined, and I did okay for a while. In the end, though, I was just a talented amateur-albeit one who could shed 25 lbs. pretty easily, and who wound up with a reach advantage over most other fighters at 147. One who had better nutrition, and really good training. I was also one, though, who had a college degree, and was going to get more of them-who'd known since he was little-and had been told repeatedly- that he was going to college. I was a guy who had options, and a pretty decent jab. The guys I fought in the quarterfinals and semifinal, though? Boxing was what they had-all they'd had since they were 8 years old.

Those ghetto boys beat the crap out of me. Never had a chance: I had a good job, lots of stamina, other fair skills, and an awkward, gawky style that might have taken another boxer fairly far, but I was just playing, and I was between them and their only dream and chance.

Mindset.

 

[Mz1]

While I have a background in TMA, I'm hardly one of "youse." I'm something else entirely. More importantly, your saying that it "favored towards being as close to a real fight to me," pretty much says that you probably really don't know a thing about "real fights," because they don't last 20-25 minutes. They're more like 30 seconds, maybe a little more, absurd youtube videos of drunken brawling thugs notwithstanding.

Your self contradiction being, while you try to convey the unpredictable nature of street fights...yet you're now trying to tell me that there is a formula for such, being this 30 seconds.

If you really fought as a Boxer as you claimed, then you should know that when 2 equally matched fighters fight, it's just not that easy to knock someone out within your magical 30 seconds, unless you get that magical KO.

And the reason why many street fights lasts 30 seconds is due to them being mostly between 2 slobs, swinging wildly until they gas out or someone gets lucky. Or it gets broken up, etc. A UFC fighter vs. an average Joe, yea I can see it lasting less than 30 seconds.

 

[Cyriacus]

Sure, I don't have a problem with that, knock yourself out....not literally (I know this is your weak spot).

I really have no idea what youre talking about?