kenpo0324 said:
Because they lack empathy for others?
Young Sociopaths
- Thread starter Jonathan Randall
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Because they lack empathy for others?
sgtmac_46
Senior Master
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Please. Some people are born sociopaths, meaning they lack the ability to empathize with others. You can rationalize this as being 'sick in the head', but the problem is this...a sickness is something that changes who you are and causes you to do bad things. Being a sociopath, however IS who you are. These aren't otherwise good kids, who are 'sick'. They are bad people, who do bad things BECAUSE they are bad people.Odin said:
You are obviously an empathetic person.....which explains your complete blindness to the realities involving people who completely lack any sort of ability to look on other people as even 'human'. No person with the remote ability to be empathetic would think that beating some homeless guy is amusing. That is the kind of 'entertainment' enjoyed by human jackals. These two are parasites, pure and simple. You can spend all the time studying these parasites as you want.....as long as it's from behind bars.
Actually, it's working quite well. Violent crime in particular and crime in general has been falling in this country (while rising in other parts of the world) for nearly 15 years. This corresponds with tougher sentencing guidelines and longer sentencing of criminals. The single model of crime control that has proven to work, over and over again, is incarceration.Odin said:
The 'touchie/feelie', 'lets understand and empathize with criminals' sociological criminology theories of the 1960's and 1970's were complete failures, resulting in some of the most violent and crime ridden era's in US history. It was only after we resolved to view criminals as what they are....criminals, and put them where the belong....prison, that the crime rate started falling.
I'd disown my child if they did that, and I'd declare myself a failure as a parent. Some things are inexcusable, and this is one of them.Odin said:
Odin said:
Sorry, but you're wrong. I'm not disputing that they might have a behavior issue, but are you saying that every person who commits a criminal act has a mental disorder?? I dont think so.
Mike
Okay Im going to take a deep breath before I go into this......whhhhh here goes...
Please. Some people are born sociopaths, meaning they lack the ability to empathize with others. You can rationalize this as being 'sick in the head', but the problem is this...a sickness is something that changes who you are and causes you to do bad things. Being a sociopath, however IS who you are. These aren't otherwise good kids, who are 'sick'. They are bad people, who do bad things BECAUSE they are bad people.
[SIZE=+0][/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0]They do bad things because they are bad??im sorry that doesnt make sense,bin laden could be called a bad person but to his followers he's a saint,you can never generalize like that,what you said is just a generalization of someone based upon on act they have undertaken that's would be 5mins of those guys life out of how many in a life time.
[/SIZE]You are obviously an empathetic person.....which explains your complete blindness to the realities involving people who completely lack any sort of ability to look on other people as even 'human'. No person with the remote ability to be empathetic would think that beating some homeless guy is amusing. That is the kind of 'entertainment' enjoyed by human jackals. These two are parasites, pure and simple. You can spend all the time studying these parasites as you want.....as long as it's from behind bars.
LOl @ complete blindness! okay reading your post surly you are the one that is ''completely lacking in any sort of ability to look on other people as human' them kids are human like it or not,what I am saying is that we should invest into what makes a perfectly normal child behave in such away...you need to look at the mind frame.as for thinking that beating someone up is amusing come come now....how many here watch boxing,or ring fight,I Thai box in a ring while others pay to watch me knee someone in the head...why is that okay???there is a chance I could kill someone but people still pay to watch it and I still fight,does that make us all psycho's???
[SIZE=+0]Actually, it's working quite well. Violent crime in particular and crime in general has been falling in this country (while rising in other parts of the world) for nearly 15 years. This corresponds with tougher sentencing guidelines and longer sentencing of criminals. The single model of crime control that has proven to work, over and over again, is incarceration.
The 'touchie/feelie', 'lets understand and empathize with criminals' sociological criminology theories of the 1960's and 1970's were complete failures, resulting in some of the most violent and crime ridden era's in US history. It was only after we resolved to view criminals as what they are....criminals, and put them where the belong....prison, that the crime rate started falling.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0][/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0]Unless there is sufficient evidence to prove that crime has lowered due to just toughing sentencing guidelines I'm going to have to dismiss that comment there can be hundreds of factors that could lead to crime dropping,including better psychological care.(") and anyhow tougher guidelines the police openly shoot kids on street in brazil if believed they have broken the law and their country is crimeless.
[/SIZE][SIZE=+0][SIZE=+0]sociological criminology theories of the 1960's and 1970's were complete failures, <---that was in the 60's and 70's do you really want me to list how far medical science has gone since then???
[/SIZE][/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0][SIZE=+0]I'd disown my child if they did that, and I'd declare myself a failure as a parent. Some things are inexcusable, and this is one of them.[/SIZE][/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0][SIZE=+0][/SIZE][/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0][SIZE=+0][SIZE=+0]That is quite sad....wait would that then mean that it would be your fault because you failed your child not their fault for commit the crime???sooooooo then it wouldn't have been them children's fault either it would be their parents...mmmmm I dont think you have thought this through.[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]
Please. Some people are born sociopaths, meaning they lack the ability to empathize with others. You can rationalize this as being 'sick in the head', but the problem is this...a sickness is something that changes who you are and causes you to do bad things. Being a sociopath, however IS who you are. These aren't otherwise good kids, who are 'sick'. They are bad people, who do bad things BECAUSE they are bad people.
[SIZE=+0][/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0]They do bad things because they are bad??im sorry that doesnt make sense,bin laden could be called a bad person but to his followers he's a saint,you can never generalize like that,what you said is just a generalization of someone based upon on act they have undertaken that's would be 5mins of those guys life out of how many in a life time.
[/SIZE]You are obviously an empathetic person.....which explains your complete blindness to the realities involving people who completely lack any sort of ability to look on other people as even 'human'. No person with the remote ability to be empathetic would think that beating some homeless guy is amusing. That is the kind of 'entertainment' enjoyed by human jackals. These two are parasites, pure and simple. You can spend all the time studying these parasites as you want.....as long as it's from behind bars.
LOl @ complete blindness! okay reading your post surly you are the one that is ''completely lacking in any sort of ability to look on other people as human' them kids are human like it or not,what I am saying is that we should invest into what makes a perfectly normal child behave in such away...you need to look at the mind frame.as for thinking that beating someone up is amusing come come now....how many here watch boxing,or ring fight,I Thai box in a ring while others pay to watch me knee someone in the head...why is that okay???there is a chance I could kill someone but people still pay to watch it and I still fight,does that make us all psycho's???
[SIZE=+0]Actually, it's working quite well. Violent crime in particular and crime in general has been falling in this country (while rising in other parts of the world) for nearly 15 years. This corresponds with tougher sentencing guidelines and longer sentencing of criminals. The single model of crime control that has proven to work, over and over again, is incarceration.
The 'touchie/feelie', 'lets understand and empathize with criminals' sociological criminology theories of the 1960's and 1970's were complete failures, resulting in some of the most violent and crime ridden era's in US history. It was only after we resolved to view criminals as what they are....criminals, and put them where the belong....prison, that the crime rate started falling.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0][/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0]Unless there is sufficient evidence to prove that crime has lowered due to just toughing sentencing guidelines I'm going to have to dismiss that comment there can be hundreds of factors that could lead to crime dropping,including better psychological care.(") and anyhow tougher guidelines the police openly shoot kids on street in brazil if believed they have broken the law and their country is crimeless.
[/SIZE][SIZE=+0][SIZE=+0]sociological criminology theories of the 1960's and 1970's were complete failures, <---that was in the 60's and 70's do you really want me to list how far medical science has gone since then???
[/SIZE][/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0][SIZE=+0]I'd disown my child if they did that, and I'd declare myself a failure as a parent. Some things are inexcusable, and this is one of them.[/SIZE][/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0][SIZE=+0][/SIZE][/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0][SIZE=+0][SIZE=+0]That is quite sad....wait would that then mean that it would be your fault because you failed your child not their fault for commit the crime???sooooooo then it wouldn't have been them children's fault either it would be their parents...mmmmm I dont think you have thought this through.[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]
modarnis
Purple Belt
>>what I am saying is that we should invest into what makes a perfectly normal child behave in such away...you need to look at the mind frame.as for thinking that beating someone up is amusing come come now....how many here watch boxing,or ring fight,I Thai box in a ring while others pay to watch me knee someone in the head...why is that okay???there is a chance I could kill someone but people still pay to watch it and I still fight,does that make us all psycho's???>>
You make a huge assuption on the facts presented in the news article that these children are normal.
There is one significant difference in the crime alleged here and organized fighting. The victim in the crime doesn't get to consent to the conduct. The two fighters in a ring event choose to be there. They assume the risk freely. Comparing the two situations is at best insulting to these victims and at worst an attempt to minimize the vicious nature of the crime by condoning the "sport" mentality of these miscreant's actions
Surprising unsuspecting victims and beating them to death or near death is a crime. There is a greater societal interest in protecting the citizenry from criminals who perpetrate these acts than studying and trying to correct their errant behavior
You make a huge assuption on the facts presented in the news article that these children are normal.
There is one significant difference in the crime alleged here and organized fighting. The victim in the crime doesn't get to consent to the conduct. The two fighters in a ring event choose to be there. They assume the risk freely. Comparing the two situations is at best insulting to these victims and at worst an attempt to minimize the vicious nature of the crime by condoning the "sport" mentality of these miscreant's actions
Surprising unsuspecting victims and beating them to death or near death is a crime. There is a greater societal interest in protecting the citizenry from criminals who perpetrate these acts than studying and trying to correct their errant behavior
I'm not disputing that environment and upbringing don't play a part, but thats almost to say that if you grow up in a classy neighborhood and your parents are rich, that the kids won't commit a crime. We can't always blame a sickness on behavior. There are people in the world who have no respect for anything or anyone. They may not have a sickness, but simply be bad people.
Mike
Mike
modarnis said:
I was commenting on the point that was made about violence being amusing,true what you said but when the cockie crumbles people still pay to watch two men beat each over up....I'll give you all a better reply in a minute as im at work and am finding it hard to dodge my manager!!lol
Hopefully this is your post, it was difficult to tell who said what...
The difference is, you and your opponent volunteer to be in that ring. It would be a whole 'nother story if you just assaulted some random homeless guy...Odin said:
Odin said:
Maybe I'm just misunderstanding your logic here, but perhaps you can explain how a ring fight is the same as 2 punks beating someone on the street?? As Modarnis said, the ring fight is mutually agreed upon. Any injuries as a result of the fight, have already been accepted by the 2 fighters. We have a homeless man, minding his own business, and these 2 punks come up and beat the hell out of him. A ring fight, as you're speaking of, is most likely going to be a sanctioned event. This was an illegal act of violence no matter how people try to sugarcoat it.
Mike
Kreth said:
Okay excuse me for getting annoyed but please read the post above yours...I have already explained what I meant by that comment,It was an example of how violence is entertaining.amusing.....my manger has a meeting in about an hour I'll be back to reply properly in abit,I hate it when i get a good debate going when I have to work!!!!
Odin said:
Please explain how a ring fight is the same as an assault on the street? In the ring, the ref stops the fight before anyone gets seriously injured. Where is the ref on the street?? I grew up watching slasher/horror movies, but I dont run around after people with an ax!! I watch UFC, Pride, KOTC, etc., but I dont assault people on the street!
Mike
Flatlander
Grandmaster
If we aren't yet quite sure how to take out the launcher, ought we let the missles drop? No, I think we're better to shoot them down for the time being. Once you've sorted out exactly how to take that launcher out, though, let's go do that.....Odin said:
modarnis
Purple Belt
Odin said:
So is your ultimate point that if violence can be taken as entertainment that violence can't be a crime. You brought up this seemingly odd argument for the facts. Don't get irritated when people call you out on it.
modarnis said:
....................................<----- that is utter unbelief.when did i say that. please read the forum.all of it.then you will see why that point was made.
The point incase you cant be bothered to read...someone said they thought a man beating up another man for fun is wrong....so i bought up ring sports.how hard is that point to understand.And im sorry if thats sounds rude but seriously come on......thats one point that has been repeated again and again...if we all still cant understand,lets just drop that point before i have to resort to drawing diagrams.(")
Martial Tucker
Black Belt
Odin said:
Of course violence can be taken as entertainment, when both parties are willing, trained participants under controlled conditions. Look at the NFL. That has nothing to do with an unprovoked attack on an unarmed person, and is totally irrelevant. Similarly, sex can certainly be considered entertainment. Some people pay a lot of money to see it in movies. That doesnt mean that rape is an understandable crime.
Life is not a video game. When you beat someone to death or blow his head off, you do not get bonus points, you go to jail. Hopefully forever. NO EXCUSES.
modarnis
Purple Belt
Odin said:
Actually, if you bothered to read my statement, I asked you what your point actually is. It is clearly not evident from the post you refer to, despite the number of times I reread it. Sqt Mac had described a spree beating where the purpose was mereley the amusement of human jackals. You turned it into an analogy between that type of spree violence amusement, and violence in sports entertainment. Maybe you should reread what Sgt Mac said. My guess (I don't want to put words on the page for him) he was not talking about entertainment, but rather he was describing the type of criminal amusement people get from dishing out a beating to a helpless victim. You then came up with a lukewarm apples to oranges analogy
Odin said:
1: You are the one that I'm afraid is missing the point. We have 2 things, ring and street. A ring fight can be entertaining, but again, there is nothing illegal about it. An assault on the street is illegal! How can the 2 be compared when they are 2 completely opposite things? Whats entertaining, to a person with half a brain, about beating someone to death?
2:
Please explain how the environment is playing a part? Again, if someone is raised in a wealthy neghborhood, does that exempt them from crime? We have kids who had nothing better to do, so they thought it would be fun or funny to beat a homeless person.
3:
I believe its the impression that you're giving here.
MJS said:
Okay I've finished work so lets get started.
Fighting is entertainment the people that pay for it are entertained by fighting.....lets that sink in..im not talking about the fighters...now those boys were said to have beat that man up for entertainment, there was a vibe in the forum that seemed to think that this made them evil,how can this be when have the population finds entertainment in violence, maybe these kids could not destabilise between the two,not everyone is right in their head you know,not every one thinks the same way,life effects people differently.
now im not saying its right what they did I was talking about how they could,what mind frame has someone have to be in in order to do an attack like that,surely they must have something wrong with them..thats my point....and dont see how punishment is best way...I dont have an alternative, I joined this debate to see if anyone else had one,or at least what you thought, some of you just ignored my argument and picked one statement as the problem,which is good because it supports my argument ''lets not try to figure out why this person wrote that,no lets just deal with what is in front of us, because thats easier and doesnt need as much brain power'
Im going to ignore your points and just concentrate on the core issues
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