Apparently it's a matter of definition then. As I see it, if it's sloppy, it likely won't be effective.
you train sloppy technique, your technique will be become retarded and yu will retrogress
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Thats possible. Sloppy is on a scale of technical proficiency, right? Technical proficiency can mean anything from range to what it looks like. One persons sloppy is another persons acceptable. I did, however, provide examples of stuff you can pretty much do if youre a drunken insomniac on meth, thatll still work out.
I don't know about that...
I see more than a few 'drunken insomniacs on meth' try various attacks... they ARE sloppy, but they aren't effective.
I see more than a few 'drunken insomniacs on meth' try various attacks... they ARE sloppy, but they aren't effective.
So, what about the drugged/drunk/soforth up folks who do manage to do things effectively?
I seriously doubt they refined their technique in a dojo for a few years.
Eh, its too late to edit. So forgive me for posting twice.
Just to be clear, when i say manage to do things effectively, i mean the guys who need restrained by multiple people, or by being blindsided, in a place where thats a thing (im trying not to be too specific). Not getting anything done effectively because several people were busily restraining you or because you didnt even see the threat coming doesnt make what youre doing ineffective. Im referring specifically to people who justify through their actions needing to be taken down by multiple people, or by way of being blindsided.
Im just adding that in there so that my reply isnt misread the way i just misread my own reply, as referring exclusively to people in normal environments (residential areas, and such) getting drugged or liquored up then going out and doing something with their newfound courage. Im referring to drugged or drunk or worn out people in general.
Just to be clear, when i say manage to do things effectively, i mean the guys who need restrained by multiple people, or by being blindsided, in a place where thats a thing (im trying not to be too specific). Not getting anything done effectively because several people were busily restraining you or because you didnt even see the threat coming doesnt make what youre doing ineffective. Im referring specifically to people who justify through their actions needing to be taken down by multiple people, or by way of being blindsided.
Im just adding that in there so that my reply isnt misread the way i just misread my own reply, as referring exclusively to people in normal environments (residential areas, and such) getting drugged or liquored up then going out and doing something with their newfound courage. Im referring to drugged or drunk or worn out people in general.
MantisTLK
Yellow Belt
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I am going to respond to the original point of this thread, which was whether or not it is a good idea to train when fatigued. I would say that it is very important to train when exhausted. Many people have already stated it is important to train under different conditions, and I agree with them. To be honest I would probably stay away from any attack that requires me to be "fresh." Last week I was sparring with a friend of mine and he threw an attack meant to strike with the finger tips, I blocked it and broke his first finger 
poor control on both parties. I think its important to recognize your own strengths and weaknesses, and I don't know about you, but my weaknesses are much more obvious to myself and others when I am fatigued. I would argue that training while tired is more valuable then training when fresh, once my primary muscles are shot, and it's hard to breathe because I've been fighting for so long without a break, that's when my real martial art comes out.
Only when I am out of energy for deception can I "Honestly express myself"
poor control on both parties. I think its important to recognize your own strengths and weaknesses, and I don't know about you, but my weaknesses are much more obvious to myself and others when I am fatigued. I would argue that training while tired is more valuable then training when fresh, once my primary muscles are shot, and it's hard to breathe because I've been fighting for so long without a break, that's when my real martial art comes out.Only when I am out of energy for deception can I "Honestly express myself"
Cirdan
Senior Master
Training outside of your comfort zone physically and mentally is incredibly important.
TheArtofDave
Blue Belt
As a side note, proper understanding of the quote was necessary before posting it as a topic. But I think we can all agree poor technique comes from poor technique. In other words if a person teaches you poor technique that is what you will have unless you correct it yourself.
Zenjael
Purple Belt
My favorite addage, 'practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.'
