You ARE or WERE a Black Belt.

[Dana]

If you earned it and are actively training, you are a black belt.

If you earned it and are no longer training, you have a black belt.

If you have it and never earned it, you paid for a black belt.

If you have earned it, are still training and could care less, you probably are on the right track.

Dana

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Thanks to all who replied. Once again my query was not for how you view others, or how others might view you.

It was meant to target how each of you would view yourself.

As some have said each is welcome to have their own self view.

My own perspective is as long as your happy, I am happy, so long as it doesn't adversely affect someone else as in the case of a self deluding charlatan who fools people into thinking they are learning according to some correct standard. But that my froends would be fodeer for a different toipic.

Until I got back into training, I had ceased to consider myself a high belt with regards to skill. Only after I had re-earned that rank did I actually consider myself to have that skill again. During my absence from TKD, I focused on sword arts; first, historical fencing, sport fencing and eventually kendo and kumdo, which took me back to taekwondo, which led me into hapkido.

But during my time away, I was just a guy who had a paper and a belt that bespoke of the skill that I had had in my early twenties.

Daniel

 

[ETinCYQX]

...rolling out the Al Bundy war stories.

Not that it's extremely relevant or anything, but I feel compelled to point out that Al Bundy actually is a black belt. He studies Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.

 

[StudentCarl]

You know, it does take a certain amount of ego to refer to yourself as a black belt. I refer to myself as a student. A belt is a point on a line, at most. Okay, it's a visual indicator of your level of experience, and in a school with more than a few students that has value. I find that the higher level black belts I've met don't go around saying "I'm a sixth dan." Those whom I respect are committed to learning rather than embroidery. The attitude tells me far more than the rank.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

You know, it does take a certain amount of ego to refer to yourself as a black belt. I refer to myself as a student. A belt is a point on a line, at most. Okay, it's a visual indicator of your level of experience, and in a school with more than a few students that has value. I find that the higher level black belts I've met don't go around saying "I'm a sixth dan." Those whom I respect are committed to learning rather than embroidery. The attitude tells me far more than the rank.

I dont think many people go around saying "Im a black belt", but I must admit, the very first question everyone asks if/when they find out you do MA is always "what belt are you?" or "are you a black belt?".

 

[StudentCarl]

I dont think many people go around saying "Im a black belt", but I must admit, the very first question everyone asks if/when they find out you do MA is always "what belt are you?" or "are you a black belt?".

Do you just say 'yes' and reinforce the idea that the belt tells the story, or do you say that it's not about the belt so much as continuing to learn and improve? I try to get across the idea that the belt is a level, like a high school or college diploma. It says you have attained some level of basic mastery of some knowledge, but it's what you do next that tells the story: you're not done learning. I don't like the cultural myth that a black belt is an expert. I think that myth is a key part of the problem with students who quit after they get their black belt. The black belt is not the finish line, and we shouldn't contribute to the myth that it is.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Do you just say 'yes' and reinforce the idea that the belt tells the story, or do you say that it's not about the belt so much as continuing to learn and improve? I try to get across the idea that the belt is a level, like a high school or college diploma. It says you have attained some level of basic mastery of some knowledge, but it's what you do next that tells the story: you're not done learning. I don't like the cultural myth that a black belt is an expert. I think that myth is a key part of the problem with students who quit after they get their black belt. The black belt is not the finish line, and we shouldn't contribute to the myth that it is.

I really try and avoid the subject if at all possible. I dont know if its completely a cultural myth that black belts are 'experts'. I think it depends more on which art you are talking about. BJJ, zendokai, kyokushin etc and a few other arts produce very very good black belts who are weapons. There are also some clubs that view black belt differently. Most non martial artists associate black belt with being very good.

 

[StudentCarl]

I really try and avoid the subject if at all possible.

Me too. I agree the meaning varies as well. To me it's more important to be working and learning more. It's a process, not an end, for me.

 

[RRepster]

You'll note my example had to do with idle boasting - which I stand by. There's a big difference between quietly helping out some kids who might need a technical pointer and rolling out the Al Bundy war stories for unplaced vanity.



That's a time honored adage, yet it's not completely on point either. As a teacher of others and an advocate of my martial arts, I worry very much about the state of martial arts and MA training in general. I'm definitely affected by others, even if they are outside of my 'box'. YMMV.

Fair enough. I just don't think it's a "problem" that we can really do anything about. If you're an instructor then you can do something about it if a new student comes in who wants to train and wants you to honor his old rank without proving skill. Most instructors I know have them train a while then rank them appropriately to find out. But on a grand scale? I personally have more important things to worry about that I can do something about.

 

[puunui]

You know, it does take a certain amount of ego to refer to yourself as a black belt. I refer to myself as a student.

I go out of my way to avoid the subject of martial arts in my daily life. If they somehow find out, I generally say I "used" to practice but didn't get very far.

 

[Kwan Jang]

In our association, all ranks including dan ranks are based on you training. If you are out of training for more than six months, your rank is no longer valid. You WERE a brown belt, you WERE a second dan, ect. If you begin training again, when you are back up to that level, your instructor can re-test you (BTW, just because I know someone will bring this up, there is no test fee). If someone quits training, we don't go to their home and take their old belt and certificate off their mantle, but we only consider them black belts if they are training. This may not be how many others do it, but I only feel a black belt (or any ranking for that matter) only means something IF it is something you have to grow into. And if you don't use it. you lose it.

 

[Earl Weiss]

I go out of my way to avoid the subject of martial arts in my daily life. If they somehow find out, I generally say I "used" to practice but didn't get very far.

And if they know or find out this is not accurate what do you say?

 

[andyjeffries]

I go out of my way to avoid the subject of martial arts in my daily life. If they somehow find out, I generally say I "used" to practice but didn't get very far.

That's got to be one of the hardest things to say with a straight face! I guess by now you've got used to it, but if I did that in your position, inside I'd be creasing up...

 

[puunui]

And if they know or find out this is not accurate what do you say?

It never comes up. People usually realize that I don't want to talk about it and they let it go. I don't feel the need or desire to speak about the martial arts to non-martial art "civilians".