Year of Global Cooling

[Flying Crane]

Idiocy like this makes it really hard to take global warming seriously.

well, perhaps the way he expressed this comes off as silly, but I think his point is very valid: we all need to examine our habits and move away from things that are blatanly wasteful. Driving specialized vehicles without good reason, if those vehicles are gas hogs, is not a good thing. They contribute to pollution and exacerbate the situation. I think everyone needs to look for ways to pollute less in their lives.

And just because the way this guy expressed himself may have seemed goofy, doesn't negate global warming. Silliness abounds everywhere in all aspects of life. But that fact does not make the problems go away.

 

[Andrew Green]

I'm still waiting to hear Al Gore explain what caused the mini ice-age from ~ 10,000 years ago ...

It was him, he drew in too much solar power while inventing the internet, this massive use of solar energy caused less solar energy to by used for keeping the earth warm, leading to a ice age.

Seriously though, why would Al Gore, a politician and a activist, be expected to explain these things. That is for scientists to do, he might be able to try and 2nd hand it from them, but he is not a scientist.

 

[Xue Sheng]

well, perhaps the way he expressed this comes off as silly, but I think his point is very valid: we all need to examine our habits and move away from things that are blatanly wasteful. Driving specialized vehicles without good reason, if those vehicles are gas hogs, is not a good thing. They contribute to pollution and exacerbate the situation. I think everyone needs to look for ways to pollute less in their lives.

And just because the way this guy expressed himself may have seemed goofy, doesn't negate global warming. Silliness abounds everywhere in all aspects of life. But that fact does not make the problems go away.

You mean I should not drive my Hummer to the corner store and around the city as an "Urban" SUV :uhyeah:

Actually I feel the term "Urban" SUV is pretty Damn silly but it is what most are used for these days.

And I agree with what you are saying

 

[fireman00]

It was him, he drew in too much solar power while inventing the internet, this massive use of solar energy caused less solar energy to by used for keeping the earth warm, leading to a ice age.

Seriously though, why would Al Gore, a politician and a activist, be expected to explain these things. That is for scientists to do, he might be able to try and 2nd hand it from them, but he is not a scientist.

but didn't he invent the Internet? :>

Read what the report says in the link in my first reply.... he's been spearheading a movement based on skewed information.... moving towards carbon neutral is a GREAT thing but do it with logic and hard facts.

 

[newGuy12]

well, perhaps the way he expressed this comes off as silly, but I think his point is very valid: we all need to examine our habits and move away from things that are blatanly wasteful. Driving specialized vehicles without good reason, if those vehicles are gas hogs, is not a good thing. They contribute to pollution and exacerbate the situation. I think everyone needs to look for ways to pollute less in their lives.

Its a shame, I think, that this kind of thinking is just beyond so many in our culture. Its just a foreign idea to so many, and its such a fundamental truth that it seems almost impossible to try to explain.

Global warming or not, this truth still stands on its own.

 

[Flying Crane]

Its a shame, I think, that this kind of thinking is just beyond so many in our culture. Its just a foreign idea to so many, and its such a fundamental truth that it seems almost impossible to try to explain.

Global warming or not, this truth still stands on its own.

That's how I see it. We have become accustomed to a rediculously high standard of living, and quite frankly it has turned us into spoiled brats as a culture. It is often very difficult for people to even consider giving up something that they have decided is their god-given right to waste and abuse.

It pops up in little ways as well. I spoke with a physical trainer in the gym where I have a membership. He was telling me about a member who would walk into the grooming area, turn on the water faucet, then walk away for several minutes before he was ready to come back and shave, or do whatever he needed to do. The trainer turned off the water and asked the guy why he kept doing this. The guys response was that he paid for his membership, so he should be able to do whatever he wants and nobody should question him about it. It's a really weird entitlement mentality.

 

[michaeledward]

U.S. Senate Report: Over 400 Prominent Scientists Disputed Man-Made Global Warming Claims in 2007
These four hundred are all oil company hacks?

Having looked at the sponsor of this report, and finding it to be Senator Inhofe, I knew it could and should be dismissed. Senator Inhofe has an agenda he is pushing, and really it seems silly to follow a report that is an attempt to justify Senator Crazy as Nero's Horse.

But, I did just find this rebuttal.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joseph-romm/inhofe-recycles-unscienti_b_77945.html

In which, we learn that Ray Kurzwiel is one of the prominant Scientists who disputes ~ well, sort of ~ the science. Of course, Kurzwiel builds musical synthesizers. I wonder how that makes him a prominent scientist for climate issues.

Kurzwiel ... you have to love it.

Oh, and apparently, Mr. Synthesizer doesn't dispute the effects of humans on the atmosphere, but rather thinks we will be able to solve the problem before it becomes a catastrophe.

 

[Ray]

Having looked at the sponsor of this report, and finding it to be Senator Inhofe, I knew it could and should be dismissed. Senator Inhofe has an agenda he is pushing, and really it seems silly to follow a report that is an attempt to justify Senator Crazy as Nero's Horse.

What's the opposite of an appeal to authority? If one can't use an authority on a subject to justify an opinion, then one can't dismiss an arguement by someone who has an opinion different than yours as nutzo. I speak too soon, perhaps you are doctor and have diagnosed the guy?

Otherwise I could just use the cop out that "you {might} have an agenda to push."

 

[michaeledward]

Ray, Of course I have an agenda to push. I am very biased. I make no bones about it. I have opinions, and I hold them strongly. I am not trying to play a neutral part on anything I post about.

If I was neutral ... I wouldn't say anything.

However Senator Inhofe's record speaks for itself. Go research him and his positions. He is at the outer edge of the bell curve. I have no problem with that ... but let us recognize it for what it is.

I do not believe that every argument breaks down to a "on the one hand, on the other hand" discussion. The media has stopped reporting FACTS and moved to this two ends of the see-saw discussion. Which, sadly, spreads disinformation and keeps people uninformed.

Oh, and incidentally, my opinion and agenda is the people learn to reason and apply reason to questions and problems.

 

[Ray]

Oh, and incidentally, my opinion and agenda is the people learn to reason and apply reason to questions and problems.

And if they come up with different answers than you, that's okay?

 

[Big Don]

I get it, no one can dispute global warming, ever. No matter how many scientists do, they are only in it for the money, etc. Gee...

 

[Big Don]

And if they come up with different answers than you, that's okay?

Surely, you must be joking. Only oil company stooges would dare dispute global warming.

 

[michaeledward]

And if they come up with different answers than you, that's okay?

If they are using reason. Of course.

 

[michaeledward]

I get it, no one can dispute global warming, ever. No matter how many scientists do, they are only in it for the money, etc. Gee...

It is apparent that you can not discern between who is a scientist, and who is not.

Further, the report from Senator Inhofe references many people who are not scientists, or if they are scientists, they are not scientists in the field upon the topic being discussed. They are due consideration in measure equal to their knowledge in the field.

Ray Kurzwiel invents synthesizers. Why should we consider anything he has to say on weather more relevant than you or I? He's just a knucklehead with a known name.

To call him a "prominent scientist" is an absolute lie.

 

[Ray]

It is apparent that you can not discern between who is a scientist, and who is not.

Further, the report from Senator Inhofe references many people who are not scientists, or if they are scientists, they are not scientists in the field upon the topic being discussed. They are due consideration in measure equal to their knowledge in the field.

You told me appeals to authorities was a incorrectly reasoned arguement; therefore invalid. You can't make up the rules and then change them just because your position is shakey.

 

[michaeledward]

You told me appeals to authorities was a incorrectly reasoned arguement; therefore invalid. You can't make up the rules and then change them just because your position is shakey.

I guess I have no idea what you are saying Ray.

What is it that you think I am changing?

And, the rules of logic are not something that I made up.

 

[Ray]

I guess I have no idea what you are saying Ray.

What is it that you think I am changing?

And, the rules of logic are not something that I made up.

You are relying on appeals to authority to make your case. You are not following the rules of the game that you play.

 

[michaeledward]

You are relying on appeals to authority to make your case. You are not following the rules of the game that you play.

To whom do you think I am appealing my argument?

 

[FearlessFreep]

Rather than "Appeal to Authority", the biggest fallacy in most discussions here is the Genetic Fallacy. Whether Al Gore or Rush Limbaugh or thinkprogress.org or foxnews.com, the bearer of the message becomes the validation of the message, or not.

Everyone bearing a message has a bias in why they think that message is worth propgating, but that does not make the message itself true or not. The knowledge of the bias is important in maintaining a healthy skepticism, but that should ne be the deciding factor in determining truth or false.

Because the bias works both ways . If you are skeptical of what Al Gore says because it *is* Al Gore, then you should be skeptical of Sean Hannity for the same reason. And if a quote from Rush Limbaugh is discounted because it is Rush Limbaugh, then an Al Franken quote should be discounted because it *is* Al Franken.

Or you can look past the source of the message to the content of the message And maybe it's true and maybe it's not, but not because you are getting it from a source that just happens to agree or disagree with your own biases

"For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear."

 

[Big Don]

Far too many of the proponents of global warming have vested interests in ensuring governments enact a whole slate of anti-global warming legislations, and/or are involved in businesses that profit from scaring people about global warming.