Wrestling vs Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

[muayThaiPerson]

Im interested in the pros and cons of each. I want to start one but dont know which. Thanks

 

[J-kid]

easy

Both

 

[Elfan]

You mean like American College wrestling type wrestling?

 

[arnisador]

What I've heard from my BJJ instructor is that the wrestlers probably have better takedowns but that the BJJ folks rule the ground. It's helpful to have some of both, in other words.

 

[muayThaiPerson]

Its good to have both but unfortunatley I dont have money for both. When you say wrestling takedowns, do you mean sacrifice takedowns where you fall too?

 

[Elfan]

Well it depends on what you are interested in focusing in. As arnisador said BBJ is probably best on the ground but wresling best getting there.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by muayThaiPerson
When you say wrestling takedowns, do you mean sacrifice takedowns where you fall too?

Well, they don't think of it that way exactly--you go down with them so as to be able to pin them.

 

[lvwhitebir]

Originally posted by muayThaiPerson
Im interested in the pros and cons of each. I want to start one but dont know which. Thanks

From what I've seen, wrestlers have the same type of ground control that BJJ has, but don't have the finishing moves. Their goal is to get the shoulders on the mat, not on choking or joint locks, or in preventing them. They can also develop bad habits that hurt in a street fight (e.g., lying on their stomach).

Wrestlers can develop BJJ skills very rapidly, however.

WhiteBirch

 

[JDenz]

If you arn't learning wrestling in highschool I would say go to BJJ. It is to late for you to start wrestling really. Everyone you practice with is going to have 15 years on you at least. If you are a Mt guy I would say go learn BJJ. If you can find a no gi place that would be your best bet. They will be able to teach you sprawling and takedowns well enough to take down most people.

 

[A.R.K.]

What kind of wrestling are you talking about? High school/collegiate is one way but I would recommend catch-as-catch-can submission wrestling. In my humble opinion it is superior to BJJ. Karl Gotch trained Matt Fury who in turn trained one of the Deputies on my shift. We cross train each other. Catch is brutal!

For example, they will not even teach you techique one until you can do 500 Hindu Squats, 250 Hindu push-ups and hold a back bridge with hands folded over your chest/nose to mat for 3 minutes. Then and only then are you ready to train.

Throw in my favorites...the handstand push-up and dynamic tension exercises like the tiger-claw, curl, whisking arm and palm press and you've got a well round butt kicking workout.

Bottom line, I recommend catch wrestling if available if not then settle for BJJ.

Good luck.

:asian:

 

[Bod]

There's always Judo of course. Or Sambo.

For a Muay Thai guy I'd choose wrestling, even though BJJ is closer to Judo. It seems ridiculous to go from punching to a drag down followed by groundwork unless you are into MMA fights.

Wrestlers have a healthy dislike of being thrown which should aid your stand up work.

In the end though it will probably be down to the classes in your area, and what the people are like there, and the quality of instruction. Whatever you do, don't hang around thinking too long, try them all out and stick with the one you prefer for now.

 

[JDenz]

Good advice BOD

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by Mya Ryu Jitsu
What kind of wrestling are you talking about? High school/collegiate is one way but I would recommend catch-as-catch-can submission wrestling. In my humble opinion it is superior to BJJ. Karl Gotch trained Matt Fury who in turn trained one of the Deputies on my shift. We cross train each other. Catch is brutal!

For example, they will not even teach you techique one until you can do 500 Hindu Squats, 250 Hindu push-ups and hold a back bridge with hands folded over your chest/nose to mat for 3 minutes. Then and only then are you ready to train.

:asian:

I "HEAR" a lot of what you say, but this one I really don't understand.

"500 Hindu Squats, 250 Hindu push-ups and hold a back bridge with hands folded over your chest/nose to mat for 3 minutes. Then and only then are you ready to train."

Expectations like those are outrageously high and will take the new student far to long to meet. They should expect to "maybe" learning some actual technique after 6 months. Thats 6 months to long.

Conditioning and technique go hand in hand, one compliments the other. The students is expecting to learn martial arts first and foremost. Matt Furey is big on conditioning so his expectations may be high and he has a diverse wrestling background, not just catch. I have his takedown tape and for someone like me it is great.

But I don't think there are many students who are going to pay conditioning first and technique later. There needs to be a medium where both can be taught together.

I know a lot of people today also say that they will go to a school that dosen't do the exercises because the classtime is only 1 hour. The answe I would think then should be a 1.5 hour class so that they can have the hor of technique with a proper warmup.

I know I rambled a bit but I guess thats me.:asian:

 

[A.R.K.]

Akja,

I understand your point, and realize I am only the messenger. Their concept is that you will not be able to utilize the training until you've reached a certain level of fitness. How strictly they adhere to this nowadays I can't say.

The way I prefer to train differs somewhat. I typically incorporate the following into any given workout session after a warm up period [stretching and dynamic tension static line drills];

Handstand push ups
Hindu Squats
Hindu push ups
Calf raising
Crunches
Finger tip push ups
Wide squats
Knuckle push ups
Thigh lunge
Staff curling
Windlass

Then regular dynamic tension exercises such as tiger claw, dry land swimming, palm prayer press etc. Motion line drills work on the aerobic conditioning.

I will occasionally throw in different exercises for interest and to 'shake' the body up. The amount expected depends on the beginning condition of a student as well as his/her level. Disabilities are of course an exception. As the student progresses so does the amount of effort expected.

I expect any of my Dan level students to be able to perform all of the above in the amounts listed such as 500 Hindu squats/250 Hindu push ups etc as a minimum!

This is in addition to the normal arm/leg pounding & rubbing exercises, body conditioning drills, dynamic tension stance etc.

:asian:

 

[moromoro]

id say if you want subbmission go for BJJ but there are also some froms of wrestling that has submission as well its a tough choice if your choosing but i trained in an art based in japan called submission arts wrestling try looking it up on a search engine

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by Mya Ryu Jitsu
Akja,

I understand your point, and realize I am only the messenger. Their concept is that you will not be able to utilize the training until you've reached a certain level of fitness. How strictly they adhere to this nowadays I can't say.

The way I prefer to train differs somewhat. I typically incorporate the following into any given workout session after a warm up period [stretching and dynamic tension static line drills];

Handstand push ups
Hindu Squats
Hindu push ups
Calf raising
Crunches
Finger tip push ups
Wide squats
Knuckle push ups
Thigh lunge
Staff curling
Windlass

Then regular dynamic tension exercises such as tiger claw, dry land swimming, palm prayer press etc. Motion line drills work on the aerobic conditioning.

I will occasionally throw in different exercises for interest and to 'shake' the body up. The amount expected depends on the beginning condition of a student as well as his/her level. Disabilities are of course an exception. As the student progresses so does the amount of effort expected.

I expect any of my Dan level students to be able to perform all of the above in the amounts listed such as 500 Hindu squats/250 Hindu push ups etc as a minimum!

This is in addition to the normal arm/leg pounding & rubbing exercises, body conditioning drills, dynamic tension stance etc.

:asian:

I'm coming around to more conditioning in training too. If you don't keep it up, you end up at a high rank and can't do a minimul amount of situps, pushups and etc...

Your land swimming is probably something similar to what we did on our stomachs in BJJ and on our backs it was called a snake move, as you snake out you end up on one shoulder alternating shoulders.

I think if you stay consistant and increase your (exercise) numbers to where as your rank goes up your capability of doing higher numbers in your exercises should go up. Rank has nothing to do with it except as a measurement tool for the students to be able to guage themselves. Thats the way I was taught and it did work, but if you slacked off, you would find yourself in trouble on a challenge night where all you do is high numbered excercises like a couple thousand of one.:asian:

 

[A.R.K.]

Akja,

It's a shame we live on opposite coasts, I would love to train with you. I think we are on the same sheet of music much of the time with similar goals.

Who knows...maybe one day :asian:

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by Mya Ryu Jitsu
Akja,

It's a shame we live on opposite coasts, I would love to train with you. I think we are on the same sheet of music much of the time with similar goals.

Who knows...maybe one day :asian:

Definately, I think we will. What I'm building upon is going to allow me to travel and train with my instructors and my students too.

 

[A.R.K.]

Let me know if and when your in the Tampa area. We'll hook up.

:asian:

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by Mya Ryu Jitsu
Let me know if and when your in the Tampa area. We'll hook up.

:asian:

My daughter lives on the East Coast so I do have reason to head out that way. But I have never been out there, she always comes here. But I will and we will hook up! :asian: