Wrestling vs Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

[A.R.K.]

Sounds good

Just give us a shout.

:asian:

 

[lost_tortoise]

What about Shooto? Scientific groundwork and good stand-up stuff too. Eric Paulson's Combat Submission Wrestling is TOP-NOTCH!

geoffrey

 

[JDenz]

Ya Paulson has alot of great stuff.

 

[twinkletoes]

Both is definitely the answer.

I'm a blue belt in BJJ, and beyond the BJJ class I teach and the training I receive from my own instructor, I train weekly with a Judoka and a collegiate wrestler. We exchange info for two hours per session: they help me with my standing game, I help with their ground game. It's great!

Do them all.

~Chris

 

[KenpoDragon]

In my opinion, wrestling doesn't focus on submissions enough, good takedowns, but not much follow through. Brazilian Jiujitsu, on the other hand has some good takedowns, but they prefer the groundwork almost all the time. I personally prefer Japanese Jujutsu or Judo which has great takedowns and great submissions. You have to remember that in a street fight there aren't any padded mats to fall on, it is usually concrete or some hard type of floor. I don't recommend going down on the ground when its concrete. Also going down with your opponent isn't always good, what about if he has a friend with him. While your down on the ground with the one guy, the other one comes along and kicks you in the head. Or there is always the knife in the back pocket thing, I don't suggest groundwork unless absolutely necessary. Look for something that focuses on taking the guy down while staying on your feet.Just my opinion though.

:asian: KenpoDragon

 

[MartialArtist]

Looks like you're 16/17. DO BOTH. Money shouldn't be a problem for wrestling, just pay $20 and wrestle at your school. You learn a hell of a lot of the basics, especially footwork and takedowns. You'll discover what your wrestling style is and will be comfortable with a lot of the things taught at your BJJ school and the same goes visa versa. Just don't put the other guy in a choke or something during a match. Both BJJ and wrestling are sport-oriented today, like most other martial arts, but comparing BJJ with scholastic wrestling?

 

[MJS]

Depends on what you are looking for. Both have much to offer. The wrestlers have awesome takedowns. The BJJ guys have good takedowns too, but I think some of the wrestlers might have more of an edge. As for the submissions, it goes to the BJJ guys. I haven't seen any wrestler match the submissions of a BJJ fighter.

Another thing to keep in mind. You see alot of wrestlers in NHB fights. Where do they get the majority of their submissions from? BJJ fighter!

Mike

 

[Old Tiger]

Kosen Judo:

After having several of his top students become newaza experts, Kano thought it a good idea to use this type of Judo in the school system. As the matches ended in submission instead of serious injury, it would be seen more in a sportive way. So in 1914 he organized the All Japan High School championships at Kyoto Imperial University. He called this sportive style Kosen. By 1925 so much emphasis was on newaza - because of its success in contest that Kano had to make some new Judo rules limiting the amount of time the Judoka could stay on the ground. This "Kosen Rule" continued into the 1940's, stating Shiai had to be 70% standing and 30% ground fighting. This led to an early split in the Kodokan Judo movement. Many of those Judoka whom Kano had set to master newaza, had spent time inventing new series of movements, escapes, and submissions. They and their students were now dominating even the Kodokan contests. There was so much negativity with this, that Kano sent many of them abroad to teach Judo elsewhere. He was very aware that they would not be easily defeated no matter where they went, and he also smartly removed the challenge they presented in Japan. Some of the known Kosen Judoka were Yamashita, Hirata, Tomita, Yokoyama and Maeda.

Kosen Judo has only continued in a few places. One example is Hirata Kanae's dojo is in Japan. He died in 1998, but the dojo still continues. Then there is Brazil, which started with Maeda. Mitsuyo Maeda who began training in Judo in 1897, and became one of the troublesome Kosen Judoka who was sent abroad with Tsunejiro Tomita. Traveling in the US, Maeda outshone his senior Tomita, defeating wrestlers and fighters that had beaten Tomita. Tomita and Maeda went their separate ways - with Maeda going onto the early "fighting circuit" for money. He even travelled to Europe where he lost the only two matches of his life against a Catch Wrestler. He spent extra time (a year and a half) with the wrestler learning some of those techniques. Finally in 1915 Maeda settled in Brazil where he taught Carlos Gracie, the son of a local politician. Carlos Gracie and his brothers adopted the Kosen Judo techniques and developed them further during the 20th century into what came to be known as Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. Maeda supposedly fought over 2000 matches in his career and lost only two... to a Catch Wrestler.

Maeda was in London, England, from February 1907 - June 1908. According to one historical source he entered and was defeated in a Catch as Catch Can tournament. Maeda evidiently learned form his losses and may have studied some Catch while in the UK. The source asserts that:

Maeda Mitsuyo, a judo 5-dan who had wrestled professionally in the United States, Britain, Spain, Cuba, Panama, and Mexico, settles in Brazil. Around 1919, while working for a Brazilian circus, Maeda taught a mix of Kodokan judo and catch-as-catch-can wrestling to a 17-year old Brazilian named Carlos Gracie

 

[Greggers69]

You can't really compare to say which is better. You use one for comptetition and the other for self defense. On could very easily compliment the other. But not one is better than the other.

 

[twinkletoes]

Hi catch,

Thanks for the recap. I'm not sure it'll shake anyone up--most BJJers have heard the story lots of times.

The detail you mention that I am not familiar with is Maeda teaching catch. Do you have sources you can cite for that one?

Thanks,

~TT