Would a single art survive in UFC?

[Rook]

I agree with this. Another good example is Chuck Liddell. While he does train grappling, I'd say he's more a striker, but yet, hes got a great takedown defense.

I've heard unconfimed reports from his camp before his Couture fights that Liddell spends more time traing his takedown defense and groundwork to get up then he does on his striking. His wrestling credentials outside of MMA are actually stronger than his striking ones, although clearly he is quite good at both.

 

[Rook]

Foot stomps are legal, and used by some. Never seem to have the effect you attribute to them though.

Bingo. Foot stomps rarely break the feet and it is very possible to wrestle with a broken foot. When I was in high school, a classmate of mine wrestled several footbones broken badly and did fine. He had actually refused to have a cast put on his foot for a couple days after he broke it so he could keep training wrestling and finish the seasons competitions before the cast was put on.

 

[Rook]

However, I do know that judo does exceptionally well. To my knowledge all the people who have beaten the Gracies were all fabulous Judo players.

Actually, Sakuraba and Hughes are not Judoists, and they have the most prominent victories over the Gracies. Sakuraba (the "Gracie Hunter") is a shootfighter primarily, and Hughes has BJJ and wrestling. Several Judoists have done very well vs. BJJ - the differences between the arts lies more in emphasis than content.

 

[Infinite]

Foot stomps are legal, and used by some. Never seem to have the effect you attribute to them though.

Hmm well I've never used it on anyone for real so perhaps I am attributing more effect than is due on this.

So I may have mistyped when I Said inside step I really was meaning inside ankle. Heal stomp at the ball joint with lateral force not virticle.

The few times I've done that at speed it seemed pretty devistating.

Are those the same foot stomps or are you doing instep bridge break or toe breaks?

I think mine is more of a ankle break in reality.

--Infy.

 

[MJS]

I've heard unconfimed reports from his camp before his Couture fights that Liddell spends more time traing his takedown defense and groundwork to get up then he does on his striking. His wrestling credentials outside of MMA are actually stronger than his striking ones, although clearly he is quite good at both.

Yes, I remember you saying this in a past discussion. I certainly agree with you, he is good at both. Its interesting though, because it seems that most of his wins are by T/KO rather than submission, but either way, he's a top notch fighter IMO.

Mike

 

[Rook]

Yes, I remember you saying this in a past discussion. I certainly agree with you, he is good at both. Its interesting though, because it seems that most of his wins are by T/KO rather than submission, but either way, he's a top notch fighter IMO.

Liddell has focused on using his grappling skills to stay off the ground as much as possible... and has done so very sucessfully. If he is ever matched with a significantly better striker, he may decide to take the fight to the ground, however that hasn't happened yet.

 

[Andrew Green]

Are those the same foot stomps or are you doing instep bridge break or toe breaks?

All of the above, pinpoint accuracy tends to go out the window in full contact fighting, the other guy keeps trying to avoid the hits

But, all those get hit, and I think your best bet at breaking anything is the instep. I've had those little bones break, it sucked, but it wasn't going to stop me, especially not with that wonderful painkiller that is adrenaline.

 

[FearlessFreep]

I dunno, how well did Michael Jordon do in baseball?

When you spend all your time training for a certain set of parameters, you tend to be very good in those parameters and not very good in others. The Bo Jacksons of the world are rare.

MMA (loosly) has a rule set and and that rule set encourages tactics and those tactics require techniques and those techniques drive training. If that is not how you train, then you will not do well in that arena.

Might as well ask how well an MMA practioner would do in Olympic Taekwondo sparring or how well a Karate point fighter would do in a Judo match...different set of rules, different motivations.
----
nothing about the art itself. The *top* fighters in any art or any stye of fighting are the ones that are the *best* at those fighting parameters. The avarega guy on the street who trains one art versus another guy who trains another art; it depends on which one is better trained and more determined. You'll never see a pure Taekwondoist win a top level MMA fight (or a top MMA fighter win the Olympics in Taekwondo sparring, for that matter) but that doens't mean much for the thousands of the rest of us who train one art or another or some combination

 

[matt.m]

Actually, Sakuraba and Hughes are not Judoists, and they have the most prominent victories over the Gracies. Sakuraba (the "Gracie Hunter") is a shootfighter primarily, and Hughes has BJJ and wrestling. Several Judoists have done very well vs. BJJ - the differences between the arts lies more in emphasis than content.

Yes I know, I was referring past Royce, in Pride FC etc. Helio loosing to Kimura etc. I also agree that there are a ton of similiarties of "Same" techniques, emphasis is different.

 

[Muay Thai Knee]

It is not the art it is the fighters ability to execute his art.

UFC has rules and the rules are such that grappling arts fair better than striking ones typically.

Take away the rules and other arts may suddenly become more viable. Simply put the most common way to take out a wrestler is to strike with leathal force which you can not do in the UFC.

--Infy

Grappling arts do not dominate MMA at the elite level any longer. Learn takedown/submission defense and suddenly striking becomes viable.

Anderson Silva - Striker current UFC middleweight Champ.
Tim Sylvia - Striker - Current UFC Heavy Weight Champion
Cro Cop - Striker - Pride Open Weight GP Champion
Wanderlei Silva - Striker - Pride FC Middleweight Champion
George St Pierre - All rounder - Current UFC Welterweight Champion(included because of the way he beat Hughes)
Chuck Liddel - Striker - Current UFC Light HEavyweight Champion

A lot of fighters who predominantly rely on wrestling or BJJ are finding
it hard recently to get wins against decent opposition. MMA has gone full circle. It is a strikers game now. As long as you have learned how to defend TD's, GnP and subs that is.

 

[Tez3]

A single art survives very nicely thank you, it's called MMA.

 

[zDom]

A single art survives very nicely thank you, it's called MMA.

Hmmm I think I disagree, kind of.

I think MMA is BECOMING an art but at this point is still just a collection of techniques borrowed, buffet style, from other arts.

I don't think the process has solidified yet, although it is "gel-ing."

 

[matt.m]

I would agree. There is no set of techniques yet, it isn't put together like say Tae Kwon Do poomse. I don't care about a belt ranking hierarchy either.....what I think would solidify it as an art is the fact that there would be a solidity of techniques within mma gyms.

 

[jkd friend]

Hmmm I think I disagree, kind of.

I think MMA is BECOMING an art but at this point is still just a collection of techniques borrowed, buffet style, from other arts.

I don't think the process has solidified yet, although it is "gel-ing."

I agree with that I feel to learn all ranges of fighting quickly MMA would be a very good choice.

 

[Rook]

Hmmm I think I disagree, kind of.

I think MMA is BECOMING an art but at this point is still just a collection of techniques borrowed, buffet style, from other arts.

I don't think the process has solidified yet, although it is "gel-ing."

Perhaps. I think it could be considered an art with a very extensive syllabus, with different people specializing in different parts. This is not entirely dissimilar to boxers being classified as outfighters, infighters, brawlers and hybrid boxers.

 

[Shogun]

It was pretty muched mentioned: but the 4 main schools that make up MMA can be supplemented or replaced by similar styles as long as the particular range, or energy is not neglected. for instance: you could replace the BJJ with submission wrestling or Sambo, or the kickboxing with a freestlye form of Karate such as Shidokan. or the freestle wrestling with Judo or greco roman wrestling. but you HAVE to have at least a basic understanding and application of the 4 disciplines. there are many good fighters who are more proficient in one area, but they DO know the others and work on them. a good example is chuck liddell. known for his striking, he also a purple belt in BJJ under eddie bravo, and a 2 time division 1 all american wrestler. Renato Babalu Sobral-Da Cuinha.... apart for his amous ground game ....is a Brazilian national champion wrestler, professional muay thai fighter.

 

[Tez3]

Well over here it's definitely a style, everyone who does MMA knows what it is! We don't have any of this ' different schools' of MMA. We have MMA full stop! It won Micheal Bisping TUF, it's what we all do.

 

[thetruth]

Given that mma is a sport with certain rules I would say a single art that does not practice similar disciplines to those evident in mma would struggle. Nothing wrong with doing a single art for street defense just not for UFC or whatever. There is a massive difference between the 2.

Cheers
Sam:asian:

 

[Odin]

Well over here it's definitely a style, everyone who does MMA knows what it is! We don't have any of this ' different schools' of MMA. We have MMA full stop! It won Micheal Bisping TUF, it's what we all do.

( : well said.

 

[Shotgun Buddha]

Given that mma is a sport with certain rules I would say a single art that does not practice similar disciplines to those evident in mma would struggle. Nothing wrong with doing a single art for street defense just not for UFC or whatever. There is a massive difference between the 2.

Cheers
Sam:asian:

Tactics and situations change, the delivery system doesn't. Relying on a single art for self-defence is very much the act of a gambling man. Surely since self-defence would be higher risk, it would make more sense to cover all ranges rather than just training in one?