wing chun vs muai thai

LFJ

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The video was displayed as an example of what the OP titled as "wing chun vs muay thai". My comments are based upon wing chun vs muay thai.

Well, that's odd. I don't know the OP's experience, but you should be able to tell Jai wasn't using Wing Chun there.

Video 2 of 5 has been uploaded now, anyway. I don't know why he calls it "Modern Day BeiMo" though. That seems a little more than silly...

Again, no Wing Chun. Looks like he's trying to imitate Mayweather's boxing style.

 

ShortBridge

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The first video is a club kickboxing/muay thai match. Regardless of what else the opponents may have studied, they were kickboxing. The 2nd video, is a club boxing match. They take place in gyms all over the world, every day.

Not taking anything away from it, it's really cool thing, it's super fun to train and do, I respect the players. But, these things are really common, there is no deeper meaning or statement to be made with it.
 

JowGaWolf

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No actually I wasn't. I was looking at what he was doing based upon someone who has 20+ years of training and look at his fundamentals. (as you asked). I didn't say anything about Jai having a problem because of being far better skilled than his opponent. What I did say was his fundamentals 'in that video' left a lot to be desired. The video was displayed as an example of what the OP titled as "wing chun vs muay thai". My comments are based upon wing chun vs muay thai. Harman has a lot of training in several fighting systems and relaxed or not the fundamentals displayed by him 'in this video' were lacking.
Other people on youtube have commented about his fundamentals as well. Ironically we often measure fighters by their fundamentals more so than the flashy stuff. I think of fundamentals like a strong root system of a large tree; even when the tree has been cut the root is not so easy to get rid of. The quality of a person's fundamentals will always show no matter how a person fights. I know for me, my fundamentals still show even when I fight lazy. People who have strong stances tend to show it when they fight or when they are just walking. Fundamentals become a part of the person so when the fundamentals of a person are weak, it shows.
Well, that's odd. I don't know the OP's experience, but you should be able to tell Jai wasn't using Wing Chun there.

Video 2 of 5 has been uploaded now, anyway. I don't know why he calls it "Modern Day BeiMo" though. That seems a little more than silly...

Again, no Wing Chun. Looks like he's trying to imitate Mayweather's boxing style.

He finally got went against someone of the same skill level. About time.
 

Danny T

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Well, that's odd. I don't know the OP's experience, but you should be able to tell Jai wasn't using Wing Chun there.

Video 2 of 5 has been uploaded now, anyway. I don't know why he calls it "Modern Day BeiMo" though. That seems a little more than silly...

Again, no Wing Chun. Looks like he's trying to imitate Mayweather's boxing style.

As I stated in post #2: "This was not wing chun vs muay thai."
 

ShotoNoob

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[edit]
Everything about the guy who was losing screams BEGINNER. For me personally I wouldn't have done that to someone who was clearly not at my level unless the person said something to deserve it. If it was just a friendly match then I would have just saved my "awesome skills" and use the match as a skills practice for me. Like maybe baiting the guy so that I can work on my counter attacks or allowing the guy to attack so I can work on my defense.
[edit]
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Yes, but this is the vast conventional wisdom of the sport fighting (kick boxing represented here) approaches.... learn to fight by fighting....
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Moreover,,, the post below about keeping hands up.... another disaster as the beginner re actively does just that.... and gets totally creamed....
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My karate plug: Get serious and learn some real TMA.

Why does WC always has to be "vs." some styles? We don't see:

- boxing vs. ...
- wrestling vs. ...
- Judo vs. ...
- long fist vs. ...
- praying mantis vs. ...
- ...
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That's because virtually no one can really do wing chun; hence the WC (or most any TMA) always fails syndrome is proven over and time again in these vids...
The "fighting style vs fighting style" videos are is usually 1 good fighting vs a fighter that isn't good or a fighting system vs another fighting system and you really can't tell the actual techniques being done. But there are some good videos showing good practitioners going against each other; you just have to swim through the crap to see good ones.
Taekwondo vs Muay Thai has some good videos that represent both fighting systems really well.
Kung fu vs any fighting system is 99% really horrible. The only thing were you'll see really kung fu techniques used against another style is from Yi long. You'll have to watch his earlier matches in other to see the stuff that non-kung fu practitioners would consider "kung fu."
Capoeira has good ones. You can see their opponents faces freak out when they deal with these guys. The movement isn't the normal "mma / boxing / kickboxing" movement so you'll see clearly that they don't know how to deal with capoeira.
[edit]

I blame modern day kung fu martial arts tournaments for trying to make Kung Fu safe. Which results in crap like this. This stuff is training for how to get knocked out. Stuff like this is one step away from turning into an anime nerd convention full of make believe.[edit]
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The Kung fu numbskull in your 1st vs. caporira vid (nice outfight) is the typical, "...throw a technique and see what happens.... oooooppss while I was checking out my nifty technique, it's effect; I got clocked by a tricky kick move,,,," Again, zero mental discipline = massive TMA fail.... Any TMA isn't for egotistical morons.... let alone the high level TMA of kung fu....
No head movement, hands coming to meet strikes, hands dangerously low for no reason most of the time, no attempt to move around the opponent:
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Right, the lacked defensive capability.... so common... but he did put his hands up versus your criticism.... to absolutely no avail.....:dead:

1. This guy doesn't have the basics of any kind of kickboxing down very well.
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Again, I take or sample some TMA stuff and since I don't really have the mental discipline to actually use TMA, I'll just revert to monkey-see-monkey-do kickboxing that all these 'expert' MMA promoters and competitors are doing....:arghh:

2. Why did his instructor allow him to be in that fight
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Because everyone knows that TMA only worked 100's of years ago....:banghead:

3. Well done to him for being brave enough to get in there.
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RIGHT ON.... WEED OUT THE SISSIES....o_O WE'RE REAL MEN HERE....:blackeye:

Hopefully he leaves it a couple of months before fighting/sparring like this again, you can have any confidence you had in your training broken pretty easy by continuously putting yourself in that kind of position before you're ready. It'll do more damage than good imo.
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YEAH, SHAKE IT OUT AND COME BACK IN A COUPLE OF MONTHS.... SAME ADVICE THE BLACK-GI'E TKD INSTRUCTORS LIKELY GAVE THE SUPPOSED TKD BLACK-BELT IN MY BACKFIST BREAK FAIL YT VID..... SHAKE IT OUT & COME BACK IN A COUPLE OF MONTHS....:bucktooth:
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EDIT: Not trying to chase prospective students away from your schools, not purposely anyhow....:oops:
 
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ShotoNoob

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[edit]
There have been cases where I lowered my output level too low and got rocked, when I went easy on a female fighter. I quickly made adjustments to the level where I wasn't dominating the fight but I wasn't getting rocked like before. Doing this allowed me to gain a better understanding on one of the techniques I knew. That day I learned 4 new applications of the same technique thanks to this lady.
Video of me getting rocked from a punch. She was faster and hit harder than I initially thought she was able to. I quickly had to raise my skill level higher but not so high where I was dominating the fight. Out of all of the people I sparred with that day she is the one that I talked the most about. She definitely earned my respect. The rules stated that we had to match our intensity to the level of our opponent.
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Oh, oh, the natural athlete out fought you.... I can't hit girls. myself.... so I feel for ya...
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I have to be blunt though... you're emphasis on sparring is wrong... and your sparring form is even wronger by Kung fu standards....
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All your defenses are sport fighting-like and way too passive....
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Enjoyed the vid-clip tremendously,,, I've found myself in similar situations.... and why I generally avoid free sparring which tends to become play-sparring.... which is not productive @ all...
 

geezer

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I don't like terms such as "vs.", "anti-", ... as if the entire world is your enemy.

Or, maybe it's all a confusion over spelling. Maybe it's reference to techniques learned from your Sifu's "auntie"! That would explain some of the problems pointed out with WC "auntie grappling" for example. :p
 

JowGaWolf

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Oh, oh, the natural athlete out fought you.... I can't hit girls. myself.... so I feel for ya
No it wasn't that she was a female that was an issue as it was that she was a female and I didn't know the extent of her skills. While it's easy to point to female professional fighters, it's not so easy to determine if an everyday woman will have fighting skills. Most girls are taught "to be girls" and do "girls things" so the chances of me sparring with a woman that hits like she did is rare. It's difficult to know just how skillful a woman will be at fighting until you actually fight or spar with her. It would have been different if I was in in gym full of professional fighters.

I don't have that "men don't or aren't supposed to hit women" mentality. Self-defense knows no gender. She also didn't out fight me. The type of sparring that we were doing was so that they can get better at Sanda and I could get better using my Jow Ga. It wasn't a sparring to see who was better.

She showed me what she was capable and I raised my intensity level from a beginner to an intermediate and gave her the respect as a fighter of skill which she deserved.

I have to be blunt though... you're emphasis on sparring is wrong... and your sparring form is even wronger by Kung fu standards
. What's wrong with my emphasis on sparring? What's wrong with my sparring form?

All your defenses are sport fighting-like and way too passive
Which is funny to me because you are saying this to a guy whose Sifu refers to as "Pearl Harbor." I'll have to share this with him. He'll get a kick out of it. If you had a chance to spar with me then you would find humor in your statement as well. But it's good that you see my sparring this way.

why I generally avoid free sparring which tends to become play-sparring.... which is not productive @ all...
The Sanda group my school spars with doesn't do "play-sparring" so the sparring sessions are very productive both for my school and theirs. I can only assume that they learned from sparring against us. I know I was able to gain a deeper understanding of my technique when I sparred against the same woman who lit me up with that combo. lol. Because we weren't trying to knock each other's head's off, I was able to work on some techniques and take a few punches to the face while I gain a better understanding of the technique. Thanks to her I can now do the technique without being hit in the face.

It's better for me to learn and get hit in the face while sparring than it is to be trying to learn a technique in a real fight where a mistake or a missed block or trap could result in serious damage.
 

ShotoNoob

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No it wasn't that she was a female that was an issue as it was that she was a female and I didn't know the extent of her skills. While it's easy to point to female professional fighters, it's not so easy to determine if an everyday woman will have fighting skills. Most girls are taught "to be girls" and do "girls things" so the chances of me sparring with a woman that hits like she did is rare. It's difficult to know just how skillful a woman will be at fighting until you actually fight or spar with her. It would have been different if I was in in gym full of professional fighters.
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Well I agree with you there.... most girls / woman aren't natural fighters.... We have a woman @ our dojo who fits the bill of the student you posted.... quite surprising when one runs across one like her.
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A bit of an aside in WMMA, where Ronda Rousey is dominating so largely.... Her female competition, some just can't stand for more than a few seconds to a few minutes.... I like to joke that someone like me can defeat a Ronda Rousey.... when apparently she has been a handful for male opponents and even in a self defense situation....
I don't have that "men don't or aren't supposed to hit women" mentality. Self-defense knows no gender. She also didn't out fight me. The type of sparring that we were doing was so that they can get better at Sanda and I could get better using my Jow Ga. It wasn't a sparring to see who was better.
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Well of course training is training in the dojo.... It's just personal quirk of mine that hitting a women is not in my DNA. Could I hit a woman if it was called for by her conduct. Sure, absolutely.... Woman don't have a free ride when it comes to abuse....
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Incidentally, I have sparred with the woman-fighter in my dojo and she too is loaded with natural talent. I did hit her on purpose once (defensively) when she was getting carried away turning a sparring session into a tournament. She later told the head instructor that I put up a good challenge unlike the other male sparring partners in the dojo. I found that humorous since I really can't fight women without a good reason... and was really playing along trying to get her to practice her kihon techniques for her upcoming belt-rank test (the head instructor had asked me to step in to help her.). Aggressive & competitive women are subject to the same ego trip as men....:hilarious:

She showed me what she was capable and I raised my intensity level from a beginner to an intermediate and gave her the respect as a fighter of skill which she deserved.
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Yeah, I had to ramp up from helpful partner mode to competition mode to teach her that assuming a cooperative partner with an inborn reluctance to fight women = / = dormat....:punch:

. What's wrong with my emphasis on sparring? What's wrong with my sparring form
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To be fair, I didn't put up a personal video & you did. I have put up reems of illustrations on traditional karate (read TMA) approach to actual fight training.... I did put up some general comments so you can refer to those for a start,,, and my postings address those directly....
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I will say in brief,,,, that I don't seek to out trade strikes,,,, I end the confrontation....
Which is funny to me because you are saying this to a guy whose Sifu refers to as "Pearl Harbor." I'll have to share this with him. He'll get a kick out of it. If you had a chance to spar with me then you would find humor in your statement as well. But it's good that you see my sparring this way.
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Well, the experience with my sparring partners is that they usually lose.... almost never land an offensive strike... or if they do they experience a potentially damaging strike in return.... I have very strong TMA defense which neutralizes offensive tactics.... your girl for all her athleticism leaves herself open to countering defense & offense which then puts her squarely in the vulnerable zone....
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Yeah, it would be interesting in sparring with you.... but I usually end up showing how mental discipline trumps tactics... so it is a lost exercise in training.... The real training for sparring comes with performing the TMA curriculum as a mental exercise... that is where the value of training with me lies.... but tns for the acknowledgement....
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As an editorial note, my 1st TMA instructor who started with TKD then left TKD for CMA, never asked or required me to spar with him. He was on a plane above most instructors I've had, in that such sparring would have been a complete waste of time..... the training of the curriculum components to TMA standards the real, important test.:cyclops:
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The other kung fu instructor I mentioned in the "WC is really hard karate Thread," did request I spar with him as a new student, which was completely stupid, IMO.... He didn't appreciate my interest in the traditional karate's and thought he had to prove himself to the class, and me too. Nothing could have been farther from the truth.... I could see how skilled he was.... and I already had concluded at the that time that kung fu was vastly superior to traditional karate.... that is if you could really perform kung fu to CMA standards... I chalked that (his request) up to ego & pressures of running a branch of a martial arts school....

The Sanda group my school spars with doesn't do "play-sparring" so the sparring sessions are very productive both for my school and theirs. I can only assume that they learned from sparring against us. I know I was able to gain a deeper understanding of my technique when I sparred against the same woman who lit me up with that combo. lol. Because we weren't trying to knock each other's head's off, I was able to work on some techniques and take a few punches to the face while I gain a better understanding of the technique. Thanks to her I can now do the technique without being hit in the face.
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Well, yes sparring is legitimate, I have a more traditional view of it's worth and emphasis in the overall curriculum. TBT, my perspective is really applicable to those who want to go deeper into the roots of what the TMA curriculum is supposed to do, re developing the mental discipline, the mental qualities spelled out by more specific terms in Gichn Funakoshi's karate.... yet present as universal foundation principles across all TMA models... Interestingly, my 1st TMA instructor's school manual specifically divided the mental capabilities of TMA training into a distinct dimension, although still very general. Tang Soo Do does this in a more, vague general statement also.

It's better for me to learn and get hit in the face while sparring than it is to be trying to learn a technique in a real fight where a mistake or a missed block or trap could result in serious damage.
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Well, reality testing lies somewhere important & critical. So as a general principle, I'm all for sparring in the TMA curriculum. But here's the view of that kung fu instructor who I wrote about in the WC vs. karate Thread.... And one which I Whole-heartly agree in matter of principle.
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He said, "I have a comrade who goes to tournaments and never loses in [kumite-the Chinese version] competition. And what this kung fu stylist does is train a single form which he does to perfection. He has perfected this one form. And that has made him unbeatable."
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By my understanding of TMA and it's principles.... I can see how this is true, and has the potential to be true to any devoted TMA practitoiner who has certain requisite mental & physical faculties.... Sure it's purist in a sense. I prefer the traditional karate model of kihon, kata, kumite... which is what his kung fu school curriculum follows....
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The TMA truth that kata, or chinese kung fu forms, Tang Soo Do hyung, whatever you want to call TMA forms is the comprehensive TMA exercise that done to the standards of TMA principles... .will give the base to be a superior fighter / self defense, whatever. There is still a place for reality testing... but the TMA base done to standards will provide the mental & physical capability to overcome virtually any athlete with any physical approach.... in principle....
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I'll give a brief explanation using your vid-cap in my next post.... Other Martial Talk members / posters have addressed these mental qualities @ a number of different threads....
 
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ShotoNoob

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ILLUSTRATION #1: EXACTLY HOW I DON'T TRAIN
Well, that's odd. I don't know the OP's experience, but you should be able to tell Jai wasn't using Wing Chun there.

Video 2 of 5 has been uploaded now, anyway. I don't know why he calls it "Modern Day BeiMo" though. That seems a little more than silly...

Again, no Wing Chun. Looks like he's trying to imitate Mayweather's boxing style.

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As a matter of principle, I could wipe out either of these KICKBOXING, WHATEVER, stylistS...
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The only difference martial arts wise is as one poster commented: The Host Jai Harman has good athletics + very experienced. His opponent appears less athletic and largely inexperienced.
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So you have a good athlete with good training pretty much physically dominating the less capable noob.
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The TMA model addresses this by preparing the noob so that mentally his can out act a Jai Harmon-- with off course physical conditioning being a necessary TMA requisite....
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By TMA standards, the noob shouldn't be any where near the ring.... He's a double / triple disaster by TMA standards....
[edit]
There have been cases where I lowered my output level too low and got rocked, when I went easy on a female fighter. I quickly made adjustments to the level where I wasn't dominating the fight but I wasn't getting rocked like before. Doing this allowed me to gain a better understanding on one of the techniques I knew. That day I learned 4 new applications of the same technique thanks to this lady.
Video of me getting rocked from a punch. She was faster and hit harder than I initially thought she was able to. I quickly had to raise my skill level higher but not so high where I was dominating the fight. Out of all of the people I sparred with that day she is the one that I talked the most about. She definitely earned my respect. The rules stated that we had to match our intensity to the level of our opponent.
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Here's your link. I will refer to a specific point... I know it's a sparring exercise, and I too have been surprised by the ferocity of my sparring partners.... but as a general rule.... not.... only on rare occasions such as when I was requested to prepare someone for specific issues and the partner broke the premise for the sparring session....
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TIME = 0.15 [GREAT CLIP INCIDENTALLY]
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You initiate a half-hearted right forward punch or front punch which then she parries or presses down.
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She then feints a counter right reverse punch which your back hand raises to parry / block.
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You also employ the hands up guard and chin tuck, with combined with head movement and body lean- twisting raises your rear foot off the floor, with your weight largely planted on your front, lead foot.
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Now this is a little confusing 'cause you fight southpaw.... So I'll have to switch to southpaw to make a specific comment.... Let's also assume I will use what I understand to be the standard kung fu guard....
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First of all, I am upright with my chin up, standing in a TMA stance, typically a high bow & arrow stance or fighting stance by karate... or a forward or front stance by karate... My hands are in a TMA guard with my right hand extended about chest to chin high by my opponent. My left arm is retracted and in front of my abdomen, I typically keep that hand (both hands) clenched although open hand(s) is traditional as well..
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The right I would have initiated would have extended through her guard to a target... it's that simple in physical movement. I would have also transitioned to deliberate contact range prior to initiating my strike.
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Had she interfered with my lead right (doubtful), upon her reverse right punch feint.... I would have absolutely done nothing physically. Not a thing.... Mentally, I would have gauged the feint as harmless, which it was.... I would for that instant, remained exactly in place (both feet firmly on the floor), exactly upright and exactly in standard guard....
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Her speedy follow-on reverse right is exactly in position to be standard tma - blocked by either of my guard hands (inside or outside).... the most expedient is my outstretched right...which is probably what I would use given her extreme speed...
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With her lead hand weapon neutralized.... one hand momentarily taken out of action.... in that precise moment I would counter with either hand. The head is the logical target because it is the closest and completely exposed by my negating her right striking hand.
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Just as head moment, body lean, hands up guard doesn't work for you in this instance.... It's not going to work for her either because I'm too fast, accurate & dynamic for her to react.
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All the kihon karate (basic kung fu) techniques give one the palate of strikes & stances to use and the one steps give you the tactics... all represented in the kata or forms with continuous motion....
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It's the heightened mental discipline of TMA training that provides the mental capability for me to overcome her.... or any one else (in principle). No learning from sparring that my assumptions & guesses about what she is doing will enable me to react or out react her skills.... That's the TMA watershed////
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Good luck learning that from me.... it's not done by sparring with me.... it's done by doing what that kung fu instructor said about forms training... IN PRINCIPLE....:wideyed: edit: Despite his request to spar with me (stupid-a-mondo), his TMA skills and perspective were real....
 
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ShotoNoob

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@ja Gow... on the 2nd exchange... where you are covering .... I'm striking while she is preparing her ultimately successful reverse middle punch.... I'm that dynamic..... she wouldn't even have gotten out-of-the-box on the 2nd part of her combo....
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EDIT: Of course, if I have let my mental guard down, I would have gotten slaughtered like you.... that would be fault on me.... not an ode to her aggressive, athletic ability..... which Jai Harman or any number of males can exhibit.....
 

yak sao

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Or, maybe it's all a confusion over spelling. Maybe it's reference to techniques learned from your Sifu's "auntie"! That would explain some of the problems pointed out with WC "auntie grappling" for example. :p

Which begs the question, that if your auntie gets you in an arm lock you can't get out of, would you still call "uncle" ?
 

drop bear

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ILLUSTRATION #1: EXACTLY HOW I DON'T TRAIN
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As a matter of principle, I could wipe out either of these KICKBOXING, WHATEVER, stylistS...
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The only difference martial arts wise is as one poster commented: The Host Jai Harman has good athletics + very experienced. His opponent appears less athletic and largely inexperienced.
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So you have a good athlete with good training pretty much physically dominating the less capable noob.
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The TMA model addresses this by preparing the noob so that mentally his can out act a Jai Harmon-- with off course physical conditioning being a necessary TMA requisite....
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By TMA standards, the noob shouldn't be any where near the ring.... He's a double / triple disaster by TMA standards....

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Here's your link. I will refer to a specific point... I know it's a sparring exercise, and I too have been surprised by the ferocity of my sparring partners.... but as a general rule.... not.... only on rare occasions such as when I was requested to prepare someone for specific issues and the partner broke the premise for the sparring session....
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TIME = 0.15 [GREAT CLIP INCIDENTALLY]
\
You initiate a half-hearted right forward punch or front punch which then she parries or presses down.
\
She then feints a counter right reverse punch which your back hand raises to parry / block.
\
You also employ the hands up guard and chin tuck, with combined with head movement and body lean- twisting raises your rear foot off the floor, with your weight largely planted on your front, lead foot.
\
Now this is a little confusing 'cause you fight southpaw.... So I'll have to switch to southpaw to make a specific comment.... Let's also assume I will use what I understand to be the standard kung fu guard....
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First of all, I am upright with my chin up, standing in a TMA stance, typically a high bow & arrow stance or fighting stance by karate... or a forward or front stance by karate... My hands are in a TMA guard with my right hand extended about chest to chin high by my opponent. My left arm is retracted and in front of my abdomen, I typically keep that hand (both hands) clenched although open hand(s) is traditional as well..
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The right I would have initiated would have extended through her guard to a target... it's that simple in physical movement. I would have also transitioned to deliberate contact range prior to initiating my strike.
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Had she interfered with my lead right (doubtful), upon her reverse right punch feint.... I would have absolutely done nothing physically. Not a thing.... Mentally, I would have gauged the feint as harmless, which it was.... I would for that instant, remained exactly in place (both feet firmly on the floor), exactly upright and exactly in standard guard....
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Her speedy follow-on reverse right is exactly in position to be standard tma - blocked by either of my guard hands (inside or outside).... the most expedient is my outstretched right...which is probably what I would use given her extreme speed...
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With her lead hand weapon neutralized.... one hand momentarily taken out of action.... in that precise moment I would counter with either hand. The head is the logical target because it is the closest and completely exposed by my negating her right striking hand.
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Just as head moment, body lean, hands up guard doesn't work for you in this instance.... It's not going to work for her either because I'm too fast, accurate & dynamic for her to react.
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All the kihon karate (basic kung fu) techniques give one the palate of strikes & stances to use and the one steps give you the tactics... all represented in the kata or forms with continuous motion....
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It's the heightened mental discipline of TMA training that provides the mental capability for me to overcome her.... or any one else (in principle). No learning from sparring that my assumptions & guesses about what she is doing will enable me to react or out react her skills.... That's the TMA watershed////
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Good luck learning that from me.... it's not done by sparring with me.... it's done by doing what that kung fu instructor said about forms training... IN PRINCIPLE....:wideyed: edit: Despite his request to spar with me (stupid-a-mondo), his TMA skills and perspective were real....

So you win because superpowers.
 

Dinkydoo

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@ShotoNoob

Although I appreciate that you're being purposefully facetious here; just because this guy was showing crap fundamentals of kickboxing whilst apparently fighting against an opponent who's 20 years of Wing Chun looked more like boxing, doesn't mean that every video analysis gone before on Martial Talk has no merit.

If certain styles repeatedly look rubbish in a competitive sparring match, then as someone who is fairly critical about their own training, I have to question the effectiveness of said art and the training methods that are typically associated with it. By all means, it isn't indicative of the style as a whole, but it definitely can provide an inisight into it's capability and the typical practitioner.
 

Dinkydoo

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So, even if you are only trying to be humourous or sarcastic, I'm still actually quite confused by your post...so I've responded.

The Kung fu numbskull in your 1st vs. caporira vid (nice outfight) is the typical, "...throw a technique and see what happens.... oooooppss while I was checking out my nifty technique, it's effect; I got clocked by a tricky kick move,,,," Again, zero mental discipline = massive TMA fail.... Any TMA isn't for egotistical morons.... let alone the high level TMA of kung fu....

The "Kung Fu Guy" sweeps the Capoeira fighter in that video, that's literally all that happens...

Right, the lacked defensive capability.... so common... but he did put his hands up versus your criticism.... to absolutely no avail.....:dead:

What, like twice in the entire video - whilst he was hit with multiple strikes by failing to parry, cover-up, use head movement or defensive footwork... You're right, I'm sure that finally bringing his hands up those few times was to blame.

Again, I take or sample some TMA stuff and since I don't really have the mental discipline to actually use TMA, I'll just revert to monkey-see-monkey-do kickboxing that all these 'expert' MMA promoters and competitors are doing....:arghh:

The fighter who lost badly was Muay Thai, apparently...

Because everyone knows that TMA only worked 100's of years ago....:banghead:

The Wing Chun guy used virtually zero Wing Chun - even in principle

RIGHT ON.... WEED OUT THE SISSIES....o_O WE'RE REAL MEN HERE....:blackeye:

Regardless of what this weird attempt at humour and/or deeply confusing online persona is, anyone who decides to get in a ring and fight receives and (in my opinion) deserves my respect.

YEAH, SHAKE IT OUT AND COME BACK IN A COUPLE OF MONTHS.... SAME ADVICE THE BLACK-GI'E TKD INSTRUCTORS LIKELY GAVE THE SUPPOSED TKD BLACK-BELT IN MY BACKFIST BREAK FAIL YT VID..... SHAKE IT OUT & COME BACK IN A COUPLE OF MONTHS....:bucktooth:

Go away, train smart, return and take the test again. Seems like a good way of measuring progress to me.

What would you suggest?
 

JowGaWolf

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@ja Gow... on the 2nd exchange... where you are covering .... I'm striking while she is preparing her ultimately successful reverse middle punch.... I'm that dynamic..... she wouldn't even have gotten out-of-the-box on the 2nd part of her combo....
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EDIT: Of course, if I have let my mental guard down, I would have gotten slaughtered like you.... that would be fault on me.... not an ode to her aggressive, athletic ability..... which Jai Harman or any number of males can exhibit.....
Your analysis is correct about the countering the 2nd exchange. That's pretty much what I did. I would have create another thread in order to show that. I don't want to take this topic off too far off course. This is the end result of the technique I was working on that day. It looks like it's just a hook, but it's not. The technique is what got me there. Also take notice of the placement of the hook. This is why I don't blast people in sparring. I've been hit with the same technique before and I'm not ashamed to admit that I was happy that my partner didn't put power into the punch. I kept using the same technique on everyone because I wanted them to catch on and to be able to defend against it. This means that I have to be able to alter a technique slightly in order to keep it effective. It's one of those techniques that you can block one way and feel safe, only to have it hit you in the same place by slightly altering it.

training%20technique.jpg


Even though I let my mental guard down, I can't deny that she took advantage of that and did a good job at it. I have to be humble enough to acknowledge that as well as accept that I failed myself when I let my guard down mentally. It was a good learning experience so in that light the sparring match was a good one. I got about a year's worth of improvement with that technique by sparring with them.

The difference between Jai Harman and the woman I sparred with, is that his attitude is all about winning even when his skill level is higher than his opponent. It shows in the way he spars and the type of videos he posts. Both of our schools were there to improve our skills. It never ever become about winning. So in that light I can appreciate someone using a technique on me and being successful with it.

Jai Harman only cares about winning so me sparring against him would be more aggressive and I wouldn't care if he learned anything from the experience or not. This is attitude is good for competition or actual fighting but not good for skill development. I wouldn't have any problem with telling the guys I spar with how I was exploiting their openings, but I wouldn't do the same with Jai. He doesn't have that type of respect from me, based on what I see in the video. It's his right to be that way so I'm not saying he's wrong for being that way. It's just that it's not a good learning method for me.
 

JowGaWolf

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The Wing Chun guy used virtually zero Wing Chun - even in principle
Out of that entire video this is what I noticed the most. Jai clearly had more skills to the point where he could have easily demonstrated good Wing Chun or good Muay Thai, or good Kickboxing skills and technique, but he didn't do it. Instead he just freestyle attacked the guy. He did a little bit of boxing, a little bit of Muay Thai, a little bit of show boating and none of it really showing an ability of technique. Things like punching with elbows out and only generating power with the arms really stood out to me.
 

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