Wing Chun and Aikido?

Discussion in 'Competitive Art Videos' started by fenglong, Feb 2, 2012.

  1. fenglong

    fenglong Green Belt

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    Unfortunately in Russian =( but still interesting to watch imo.
     
  2. mook jong man

    mook jong man Senior Master

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    Can't see any video so I don't know what you are talking about .

    So I assume that you mean it is some sort of exchange between Wing Chun and Aikido or someone has come up with a hybrid system combining Wing Chun and Aikido.

    But anyway I will choose the latter , combining Wing Chun with Aikido is not a good idea due to the different methods of generating power .
    Wing Chun's method of generating and overcoming force is unique to Wing Chun , the power is generated by the correct Wing Chun stance .

    Any martial art that wishes to adopt Wing Chun techniques into their arsenal would have to also adopt the Wing Chun stance , anything other than that will result in less than optimal performance of the deflections and attacking movements .

    It's a bit like trying to run windows software on a mac or putting diesel in a car that's supposed to run on petrol.
     
  3. fenglong

    fenglong Green Belt

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    Bleh, sorry, should have checked whether copy/past worked....

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 24, 2014
  4. mook jong man

    mook jong man Senior Master

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    Ok I only watched a few minutes of it , but basically he is just using the Wing Chun Tan Sau and Pak Sau to capture the arm and set up the Aikido locks.

    But it is quite redundant as by that time the attacker should have been hit several times and there should be nothing left to lock as the attacker should already be knocked out.

    Also he violates several important Wing Chun principles like turning his back on the opponent to apply the lock , Wing Chun always faces the opponents centerline.

    I apply arm bars on people from chi sau just as a bit of fun , but if it's for real your priority is always to strike.
    If he really wants to do it he should omit the strike and just deflect with the Tan Sau and then go straight into the lock , what's the point of locking or throwing someone when they should already be knocked out?
     
  5. K-man

    K-man Grandmaster

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    I'm a little confused as to what the video was trying to get across. Was it trying to demonstrate similarities of wing chun and aikido? I'll leave it to mook to comment on the WC as I have never studied it. As for the aikido, I'm not impressed with the technique demonstrated. I don't believe that practitioner could perform those moves in real time and with adrenalin dump in a real situation, he would have no hope.

    I know that it is demonstrating an application, but, by all means demonstrate slowly to show the technique but also show it against a realistic attack even if you need to use protective headgear. Punching and leaving the hand hanging out leaves me cold. (Similarly people who do little jabby punches and claim you could never catch them.) Just throw a punch with intent and try to withdraw it as you would in a real situation. Here you had uke throwing himself all over the shop. That doesn't happen in the real world. Most times you need the atemi to make the techniques work. If you land the atemi, as mook said, you don't need the lock.

    I try not to be negative but aikido cops enough bum wrap in normal time without seeing something like this. What was demonstrated here was not good aikido from my experience.

    End of rant, please return to normal viewing. :)
     
  6. Jenna

    Jenna Senior Master

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    Please do not think that this is some kind of dumbass Youtube Aikido vs Wing Chun shootout. It is not! :)

    This is a Yoshinkan Aikido club (which is in many ways dissimilar to the Aikido as many know it) and what is happening here is simply that he is trying to take some WC technique and analyse and I think assess the possibilities for assimilation into their Yoshinkan technique. As most of you know, this is simply one way to cross-train and enhance one's art. Thank you, Jenna
     
  7. Jenna

    Jenna Senior Master

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    Hello, what was your intention please when you posted this video? What do you think it represents yourself? Thank you.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 24, 2014
  8. K-man

    K-man Grandmaster

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    Wasn't thinking of it as a shoot out but more was trying to understand why anyone would even try to add a complex series of hand moves to the simple atemi and entry that makes aikido so effective.

    I was having a go at the limp attack but what I didn't like about the aikido was the entry without protecting against the elbow. With our aikido (descended from Aikikai) and karate (Okinawan Goju) we never protect against the strike with pressure below the elbow. Even a soft deflection of a straight punch is backed up by entry with protection above the elbow to prevent the punch turning into an elbow to the head. Then there was the kote gaeshi. I don't like to see that performed with the extended arm as it is too easy to get hit with the other hand. Not only that, but normally it just won't work mechanically.

    Perhaps the move I like most in aikido is the simplest (irimi nage). Sabaki to avoid the attack, maybe a simple atemi to the ribs or abdomen and the strike to the neck with kokyu. So easy and so effective.

    I hadn't thought of it as Yoshinkan but yes, I see that. I have seen a little of it here with a guy called Joe Thambu. Things I see are the tension in the hands and a physical clash requiring strength and speed. Joe is very good at the strength and speed.

    I'm not sure that I'd want to add much to aikido. I reckon Ueshiba Sensei got it pretty right and if I wanted to add to it I would probably look at Daito Ryu rather that WC or any other unrelated style. Aikido was a very much simplified art derived from Daito Ryu.

    Cross training with aikido works beautifully for me with karate but I would question whether it works in reverse. If I had anywhere near the ability of my Aikido teacher, I wouldn't be cross training at all. At its best, as we have said before, aikido has it all.
     
  9. Aiki Lee

    Aiki Lee Master of Arts

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    The major issue I have with the video is that the defender responds faster than his partner attacks. Other than that, I don't think the aikido aspect was that bad. It was a little stiff, not very fluid, and the guy didn't maintain real great balance, but I've seen worse. The WC aspect I cannot comment on because I have no experience with it.
     
  10. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

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    So it's basically a Wing Chun teacher showing how to incorporate Wing Chun striking and trapping concepts into Aikido grappling and takedown movements by ignoring the fact that the two of them are completely opposite in terms of ideas. Not terrible, but enough little issues to not impress me. One question, though, why did you post it in the "Competitive Arts Videos" section, when there is no sporting aspect to the clip, and neither of the systems are competitive? Hmm....
     
  11. Cyriacus

    Cyriacus Senior Master

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    Pretty much this. I *was* typing out a reply, but it seems I dont need to take the time.
    The only thing id add, is that theres no point in making the changes that are being made.
     
  12. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

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    Oh, I get why it's done. The Wing Chun instructor and the Yoshinkan Aikido instructor are friends, and the Aikido guy wants to bring more striking into their Aikido, so they brought in the Wing Chun friend to assist with that. The catch is, though, that what the end result is shows quite nicely the way you can't just stitch things in together, all the Wing Chun striking from the Aikido guys feature Aikido body movement, which, to a fair degree, robs them of their "Wing Chun-iness" and the way power is created there... but does still use the Aikido power source. Really, to me, that's all that makes the clip interesting, but I don't think it was the intention of those making the clip, or the OP in posting it. That, I also find rather interesting.
     

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