William Durbin, Koga Ryu - Kosho Ryu connection?

[BlackCatBonz]

well M.C.
the only time i have ever heard about mitose and ninjutsu is from durbins's writings, nimr hassan's writings, and people from those camps.
i still stand by this though......IF mitose made up all the stuff he taught, with very little input from "real" teachers.....then he must have been one heck of a martial artist.
but what i think is neither here nor there.
people like durbin and hassan will always be around trying to get credit without the work, and gaining a healthy following in the process; all the while perpetuating a phony story for their own self-aggrandisement.

shawn

 

[Don Roley]

There is nothing linking James Mitose to Fujita Seiko. Except of course, Mitose's say-so.

Sorry to sound like a broken record, but shouldn't that be "nothing but Terry Lee's say so, supported by Wilaim Durbin"?

I really, really do not see anything other than Terry Lee's word that Mitose made claims of knowing ninjutsu. And I do not trust the word of a guy who would murder two elderly people. Are you guys sitting on some sort of comment by Mitose that you just won't share with me? Because, while the more I hear about Mitose the less I think of him, I really do not see anything that makes me believe that the story of Lee learning ninjutsu is anything other than just a story by Lee.

 

[The Kai]

Most of the information gets a little "sketchy" when you try to substantiate any before mitose

Todd

 

[Karazenpo]

Sorry to sound like a broken record, but shouldn't that be "nothing but Terry Lee's say so, supported by Wilaim Durbin"?

I really, really do not see anything other than Terry Lee's word that Mitose made claims of knowing ninjutsu. And I do not trust the word of a guy who would murder two elderly people. Are you guys sitting on some sort of comment by Mitose that you just won't share with me? Because, while the more I hear about Mitose the less I think of him, I really do not see anything that makes me believe that the story of Lee learning ninjutsu is anything other than just a story by Lee.

Amen.

 

[Jeff Boler]

Sorry to sound like a broken record, but shouldn't that be "nothing but Terry Lee's say so, supported by Wilaim Durbin"?

Actually, it's the other way around. Durbin writes most of the history for Hassan. I think Hassan has simply bought in to Durbin's theories.

I really, really do not see anything other than Terry Lee's word that Mitose made claims of knowing ninjutsu. And I do not trust the word of a guy who would murder two elderly people. Are you guys sitting on some sort of comment by Mitose that you just won't share with me? Because, while the more I hear about Mitose the less I think of him, I really do not see anything that makes me believe that the story of Lee learning ninjutsu is anything other than just a story by Lee.

I think you are right. Now I don't know what type of documentation that Hassan has, but it would be the only thing that would say one way or the other. He is the only person that I know of that has ever said anything about Mitose knowning Ninjutsu, even though Durbin claims that Robert Trias made that comment.

This book really needs to be reviewed by Don, or someone who understands Ninpo. I would love your opinion on it.

 

[The Kai]

Durbin met Mr Trias? Was the comment in answer to a specific question?

I doubt that these two ever met, much less had a conversation.

Durbin has a history of inventing history

 

[Jeff Boler]

Durbin met Mr Trias? Was the comment in answer to a specific question?

I doubt that these two ever met, much less had a conversation.

Durbin has a history of inventing history

I don't think they did. Durbin uses the phrase, "According to Robert Trias..." he never really reveals the source of this information. Regardless, I doubt Mr. Trias has any knowledge of Koga Ryu anything from Mitose, or anyone else for that matter.

 

[M.C. Busman]

Sorry to sound like a broken record, but shouldn't that be "nothing but Terry Lee's say so, supported by Wilaim Durbin"?

I really, really do not see anything other than Terry Lee's word that Mitose made claims of knowing ninjutsu. And I do not trust the word of a guy who would murder two elderly people. Are you guys sitting on some sort of comment by Mitose that you just won't share with me? Because, while the more I hear about Mitose the less I think of him, I really do not see anything that makes me believe that the story of Lee learning ninjutsu is anything other than just a story by Lee.

If my memory serves me fair, Mitose mentioned koga ninjutsu in the court transcript. I'll double check sometime this week. Apparently the certificate Mitose signed for Terry Lee also said something about Koga Ryu. Michael Brown could clarify.

Lee/Hassan's testimony about Mitose was definately not complimentary. Not unexpected considering some of Mitose's statements about Black folks under oath though. Amazing how much time can change.

Happiness,

M.C. Busman

 

[gavarn]

I find it interesting the things I find on this site about Nimr Hassan. For the record he started training with Mitose in 1973 and in 1974 opened a Dojo with him in La. I wonder why no one ever ask him or even makes an effort to speak with the man. You all go on information about the man and he is here and very accessable.

 

[RRouuselot]

I noticed on E-Budo that Dr. William Durbin, Soke of Kiyojute Ryu Kempo has written a book on Koga Ryu Ninjutsu.

http://www.paladin-press.com/detail.aspx?ID=1153

There are some interesting articles on Mr. Durbin's site pertaining to Kempo, and it supposed links to Koga Ryu. You can view Mr. Durbin's site here.

http://www.kiyojuteryu.org

Now without starting a flame war, I would like to hear some response on Mr. Durbin's work, especially when it comes to Mitose and Ninjutsu. Apparently, Durbin has studied the method through Nimr Hassan, Mitose's one and only student during the time of the trial. He claims that Mitose actually learned the art through Seiko Fujita, who was apart of the entourage that followed Choki Motobu around Japan.

Any thoughts?

Well let’s consider who one of Durbin’s “buds” is…..the infamous "Dr." Rod Sacharnoski.

Let’s also not forget that they are both part of the World Soke Council or some such mutual Soke ranking society. In my opinion both men are dishonest in their presentation of their ranks and qualifications to say the least.

 

[Jeff Boler]

I find it interesting the things I find on this site about Nimr Hassan. For the record he started training with Mitose in 1973 and in 1974 opened a Dojo with him in La. I wonder why no one ever ask him or even makes an effort to speak with the man. You all go on information about the man and he is here and very accessable.

Ok, i'll bite. From your perspective, how much training did Hassan actually spend with Mitose?

And...you do admit the truth behind the murder?

 

[The Kai]

Be carefull any history that William Dubin had a hand in writing is really nothing more that a attempt to bolster his own fanciful claims

 

[koga ha]

Ok, i'll bite. From your perspective, how much training did Hassan actually spend with Mitose?

And...you do admit the truth behind the murder?

jeff, how long did you train with mitose...hum? it would seem to me that we should question your training, but we don't.

 

[Jeff Boler]

jeff, how long did you train with mitose...hum? it would seem to me that we should question your training, but we don't.

This is a rediculous arguement, as i'm not the one claiming to have been taught by Mitose. If this is the best response that you can come up with, then your screwed.

On top of that, I'm not all that impressed in what I have seen about Mitose. I think all of the claims of him being some great master are highly suspect.

 

[koga ha]

This is a rediculous arguement, as i'm not the one claiming to have been taught by Mitose. If this is the best response that you can come up with, then your screwed.

On top of that, I'm not all that impressed in what I have seen about Mitose. I think all of the claims of him being some great master are highly suspect.

i'm not trying to argue with you; just asked a question.

well, everyone has an opinion...take a look at this site!

 

[The Kai]

Without answering the question asked of you!!

Since hassan is claiming to have learned this unheard of art from his short time with Mitose-how much did he learn??? Alsoo where was the Dojo??

 

[John Bishop]

Terry Lee (now known as Nimr Hasan) has already answered the questions of his training with James Mitose. There are over 225 pages of his sworn testimony during the trial of James Mitose in Los Angeles Superior Court.

Here are a few excerpts from the transcript:



Mr. Ito (L.A.D.A.) : When did you approximately meet him (Mitose)?

Mr. Lee: January of this year, 1974.

Mr. Ito: And where did you meet Mr. James Mitose?

Mr. Lee: At a karate school run by a Mr. Robert Moore, on Beverly and Serrano.

Mr. Ito: Were you taking lessons, or were you in some way associated with Mr. Moore’s karate studio?

Mr. Lee: Yes, at the time I was the national tournament director of the Universal Karate Association.


Later in the testimony,
Mr. Ito: And Mitose would teach you these fundamental skills?

Mr. Lee: Yes he did.

Mr. Ito: Were you impressed by the way he taught you?

Mr. Lee: I was impressed by the difference of the fundamentals, the approach, the movement. But it was still basic, the blows were still basic, the kicks were basic. There was nothing of a high degree shown.

Mr. Ito: How long did this relationship and this practice between you and him (Mitose) continue?

Mr. Lee: Until my arrest on April the 3rd, 1974.

 

[The Kai]

January to April, 4 whole months of training

 

[John Bishop]

January to April, 4 whole months of training

Actually, 3 months at the very most. Since the training didn't start when they first met in January. And it ended April 3rd.

 

[koga ha]

Terry Lee (now known as Nimr Hasan) has already answered the questions of his training with James Mitose. There are over 225 pages of his sworn testimony during the trial of James Mitose in Los Angeles Superior Court.

Here are a few excerpts from the transcript:



Mr. Ito (L.A.D.A.) : When did you approximately meet him (Mitose)?

Mr. Lee: January of this year, 1974.

Mr. Ito: And where did you meet Mr. James Mitose?

Mr. Lee: At a karate school run by a Mr. Robert Moore, on Beverly and Serrano.

Mr. Ito: Were you taking lessons, or were you in some way associated with Mr. Moore’s karate studio?

Mr. Lee: Yes, at the time I was the national tournament director of the Universal Karate Association.


Later in the testimony,
Mr. Ito: And Mitose would teach you these fundamental skills?

Mr. Lee: Yes he did.

Mr. Ito: Were you impressed by the way he taught you?

Mr. Lee: I was impressed by the difference of the fundamentals, the approach, the movement. But it was still basic, the blows were still basic, the kicks were basic. There was nothing of a high degree shown.

Mr. Ito: How long did this relationship and this practice between you and him (Mitose) continue?

Mr. Lee: Until my arrest on April the 3rd, 1974.

could you scan the actual document, highlighting where it says this and pm it to me?

i would like to thank you in advance.