Will you say something that you can't prove it?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by Kung Fu Wang, Nov 20, 2018.

  1. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    Wow, that sounds like you have some experience! Don't forget your end statement.
     
  2. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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  3. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    The point being that the claim "Proof is a purely mathematical term" is is inaccurate, unfortunately for the claimant.

    Peace favor your sword (mobile)
     
  4. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    I do say stuff I can't prove. But I will prove what I can. I try not to beat people over the head with unprovable stuff.

    And will accede a point I can't prove.
     
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  5. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I'll dispute the notion that proof is a purely mathematical term. There are other usages besides math.
     
  6. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    From legal.com:
     
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  7. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Or a print shop providing a prepress proof to a distillery for their latest ad for that 80-proof whiskey.
     
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  8. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Master of Arts

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    Hehe.. well nothing is truly provable anyway, and it's only provable within the confines of that particular structure or belief system to use as a reference point or foundation. Without that, it's just floating words :p. Any system/method of 'provability' has inherent within it the limitation of its own basis. Once you question the basis, it leaves not much to say, much less prove!

    We can use logic, evidence of repeatability/consistency (the scientific method), just anecdotal experience, or other means for the time being for entertainment. (But I sense a slippery slope emerging for the future of this thread... can't prove it though XD )
     
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  9. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't think "prove" has to be an absolute. There's a reason the law says things like "prove beyond a reasonable doubt". I can prove people sometimes tackle in fights by showing a video of a fight where someone tackles. Could it be staged or somehow faked? Sure, but as long as we don't get too deep into philosophical hypotheticals, we can all agree it's possible to prove (within the most common non-math usages) some things. To what degree are they proven? That's another part of the question.
     
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  10. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    There is a difference between saying something you can't prove and deceiving someone. Saying something you can't prove is normal. Religion being the biggest example. A scientist and their hypothesis. Things that happened in my child hood, for example, when I threw a rock and hit a snake that I thought was about to bite my friend. There's tons of stuff that's true that we can't prove. The legal system is full of examples, of people who are innocent but have no way of proving it. So if someone tells you that you robbed the store at 11pm but you knew you were home by yourself sleeping. Then how do you prove that you were where you said you were at the time of the crime?

    The thing that rubs most people the wrong way is deception where someone says something that they know isn't true only because they know you can't prove that what they say is a lie.

    As far as believing someone believing me, I don't care what other's think except the cops, feds, and jury. Other than that, people can believe what they want. I only say that because I know that's what they are going to do anyway regardless of what I want them to believe.

    Trying to get people to believe you can be very exhausting, so if you want someone to believe you, then make sure it's worth the effort. I'll use myself as an example. When I first joined the site, I had a lot of people who thought I couldn't do the thing I claimed. So I busted out the videos to show me doing what was said to be impossible. In my mind, the gain was much bigger than the pain of me trying to get someone to believe me. I had a chance to share some information to another Jow Ga practitioner this week about his efforts to go from form to application, but I didn't. I felt it just wouldn't be worth telling that person as much as I've shared here.
     
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  11. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    Proof is dynamic and it changes from culture to culture and even withing certain social groups. Proof never means the same thing Prove people can't fly, Prove people can fly, Prove chemistry isn't witchcraft. Prove witch craft was just chemistry. Throughout history "proof" has been on different sides of good and bad.

    For the most part proof is going to be what your audience believes. It doesn't have to be true and it doesn't have to be some complicated math fact for it to be proof.
     
  12. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    Your last statement is where people often fall short. I see it as a logical decision. If the equation/debate/argument/etc.. gets to the point where accession is the logical answer, it is the logical thing to do. Takes the emotion out of the decision.
     
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  13. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    People are inherently not very logical, even when we think we are.
     
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  14. Martial D

    Martial D Senior Master

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    Yes, those are all legal definitions, and even that sort of 'proof' is built off of evidence. You don't ''offer' proof, you arrive at proof(in a legal sense).

    Context is important.

    The context here is to offer proof for your statements..which you can't(again, unless you are offering mathematical proof). You can only provide evidence..even in a court of law.
     
  15. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    The point being that the claim "Proof is a purely mathematical term" is is inaccurate, unfortunately for the claimant.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
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  16. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    Fortunately, we can depend on some segments of society never fibbing to us. Politicians, lawyers, karate teachers, the clergy, repair men, in laws, kids, adults. Everything except dogs.

    WhiteDevilCrop.png
     
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  17. Martial D

    Martial D Senior Master

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    As does context, unfortunately for the peanut gallery.
     
  18. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    And I bet the grapes were sour too, eh Mr. Fox?
     
  19. Martial D

    Martial D Senior Master

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    You tell me, you're the one taking things out of context just to make pointless pedantic objections.
     
  20. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    You mean like "proof is purely a mathematical term" in response to the OP, Mr. Fox?
     

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