Why Tai Chi ?

[Ninway J]

I'm training mostly for the martial applications, but I of course want to train for all that taiji has to offer. As of now, I've been practicing taiji (Yang style long form) for three weeks. I already notice a difference in the way I stand and move when I do non-taiji stuff.

 

[7starmantis]

I believe that practicing taiji will encompas all the benefits, the martial aspect and the health benefits.

7sm

 

[Dronak]

My original reason for looking into learning tai chi was the healt/relaxation aspect, it seemed like it could be a good way to help me relieve some stress. But I did also learn that it was a martial art and originally meant for fighting, so I wanted to learn that aspect of it as well. As I had read, the health benefits tend to come from practicing it as a martial art. Remove the fighting applications from it and you're removing a vital part of the style. So I wanted to learn it for the health part, but I wanted to learn it properly and get some discussion of the MA fighting applications of postures and such. I'm glad the teacher of our Chinese MA club did cover some of the fighting applications when teaching tai chi. We never really got around to pushing hands or anything, but it seemed like our teacher really knew his stuff and could have done plenty of tai chi combat stuff if he wanted to. But the focus of the class was on Shaolin kung fu, so we didn't take the tai chi stuff very far.

 

[Feisty Mouse]

Of course both, but I think that Tai Chi practice is really assisting my MA training in the other arts I train in, especially boxing (JKD). It is excellent for making me much more aware of what I'm doing versus what I'm trying to do!

 

[7starmantis]

Of course both, but I think that Tai Chi practice is really assisting my MA training in the other arts I train in, especially boxing (JKD). It is excellent for making me much more aware of what I'm doing versus what I'm trying to do!

How so? It is making you more aware of what your trying to do versus what your doing? Thats interesting, care to eleborate?

7sm

 

[tshadowchaser]

Just started studying the Yang style about 3 weeks ago. I had dabbled in tai chi befor but never really studied. I find the movements help me relax after doing my own art (hard and powerul movements).
Don't know the whole form or even half of it yet but I am enjoying the change.
I did do push hands already but have been doing that for a while with out instruction and the instructor saw me and my son pacticing so he started showing us the correct way to do it.

 

[East Winds]

I agree with most of what has been said. I don't think you can really train Taiji without training push hands as well. Push hands teaches so many of the basic principles of the art, that without it, your form may look nice, but it will be empty. (Tai Cheese??) Push hands of course teaches the use of the main energies that are the foundation of the taijiquan applications. I don't like competition push hands and as one poster rightly said, it should be used as a training exercise. Competitive push hands can so easily end up in "pushing" and "shoving", much in the way I think modern Judo has gone. Both have lost the element of yeilding.

Good discussion by the way

Regards

Alistair Sutherland

 

[Tony]

I did a taster course on Tai Chi at a local college and I really enjoyed it! It made me feel so calm and I would love to study it but purely for stress relief and relaxation. I think its very beneficial for older people as well to keep them supple, agile and healthy. I already study Kung fu and I know one would benefit the other quite well.

 

[Feisty Mouse]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Feisty Mouse
Of course both, but I think that Tai Chi practice is really assisting my MA training in the other arts I train in, especially boxing (JKD). It is excellent for making me much more aware of what I'm doing versus what I'm trying to do!

How so? It is making you more aware of what your trying to do versus what your doing? Thats interesting, care to eleborate?

7sm

I had to think about this for a minute. Aside from understanding the root, and lines of force, Tai Chi practice (what little I have done) is very helpful to me because, in part, of the pace. While I can throw a wierd strike in sparring, things are happening so quickly that I can't reconstruct for myself what the "correct" vs. "incorrect" felt like in my limbs.

Doing push hands or tai chi form with an instructor allows me to repeat movements and feel the sometimes subtle differences between me trying to force a posture or punch, and the action unfolding from my structure.

(Does that make much sense?)

 

[pete]

(Does that make much sense?)

absolutely! its all about understanding your center, the center of your opponent, and the "3rd center", the center you share when you are engaged in combat. this training builds the calm awareness necessary to listen, identify and then respond with those subtle adjustments that will either correct your position, or take advantage of a defect in your opponent.

this is true in pushing hands and "hard" sparring as well...

pete

 

[Tony]

Well I have found a local class near me on a saturday morning! I've been looking for a Tai Chi class for ages but all have been too far away but luckily through the local paper I have found this one. For those of you who study Tai Chi what can i expect from a first class? I'm mainly wanting to become more relaxed and calmer. But I don't think it would hinder my Kung fu too much either, as it would probably help my forms and postures which I really need.

 

[Empty Fist]

Congratulations on finding a class. Classes vary depending on the instructor. Hopefully your teacher is not one of those "just look at me and do what I do" instructors. A good teacher will emphasize proper body mechanics and martial applications of each posture. Some classes may include some push hands instruction as well. Typically a teacher will focus on teaching one posture each class. Some postures may take even two classes to teach! Also keep in mind that the body mechanics of external martial arts are different from internal martial arts. Tai Chi Chuan will eventually help you to relax over time but patience is the key.

 

[pakua]

Well, I hadn't realised that Tai Chi was a martial art till I started it a month ago, and started doing some reading. So at the moment I'm in it for fitness, stress, those sorts of things, but who knows in the future?

My Sifu also teaches kobu (my kids both train with him), and prefers his Tai Chi instructors to, as well. This, he says, gives them an understanding of the martial aspects of Tai Chi.

Sifu always points out some of the martial aspects- eg, this hand is here for protection, or could strike from here etc. He's also always emphasising the power of balance and rooting, as if responding to an assailant.

Galante's book (which Sifu recommends) shows the martial arts side of just about every movement.

(But at the moment I'm concentrating on trying not to trip over my own feet ......!)

 

[Taiji fan]

It seems no one has the patience to study taiji long enough to be really truly good in skill.

I've been training for 11 years now.....

Hopefully your teacher is not one of those "just look at me and do what I do" instructors

:waah: I started with one of those types and did 4 years with them.......seems like there are far to many of them about. :mrtoilet:

 

[Angelusmortis]

I think that's a problem that I've heard many people mention, the availability of a good instructor. My old dear used to do tai chi, and her instructor left the area too. Then trying to find a new one proved next to impossible...The Wing Chun instructor I've located also teaches Tse Gong, would I be right in assuming that this is also something to do with the manipulation of chi??? Must confess my ignorance ref this....

 

[celtic bhoy]

No disrespect intended, but does Tai Chi have any fighting qualities?

There is a Yang Style class opened close to me and thought about having a look.

What's the difference between Wudang and Yang Style?

 

[vampyre_rat]

No disrespect intended, but does Tai Chi have any fighting qualities?

Yes it does. Unfortunately it takes a while to get to grips with the taiji approach. You are trying to not use hard physical force, but something else. A good taiji push can send someone reeling for quite a distance, if you imagine that kind of power focused into a punch you can get an idea of what it can do.

There is a Yang Style class opened close to me and thought about having a look.

What's the difference between Wudang and Yang Style?

In the main it will be in the 'form'. The kata of the style. They may also focus on different aspects, but that is more down to the teacher than the style.

If you want to learn taiji as a martial art it will take time and perserverance. It could take years. You are trying to get your body to act in a whole new way. Any other MA training you have done will not necessarily help, but it might. There are virtually no short cuts.

My advice would be to go along to the class and see if you like it. You might not! It has been known. You might not see feats of martial prowess at your first class either. i.e. applications etc.

 

[Dronak]

Yes it does. Unfortunately it takes a while to get to grips with the taiji approach. You are trying to not use hard physical force, but something else. A good taiji push can send someone reeling for quite a distance, if you imagine that kind of power focused into a punch you can get an idea of what it can do.

I'd generally agree with that. I've got a variety of books on tai chi and many of them explore the fighting aspects of it to some extent. They're there, so I think you just need to find a good teacher who knows them in order to learn them. Our teacher didn't do a whole lot of that with us, but sometimes he would mention some combat aspects of moves in order to help us learn them and have a better idea of why a certain move or motion is being performed the way it is. And of course in the end, you can't do everything in slow motion like that, you have to speed it up to combat speed eventually.

I think vampyre_rat is right that tai chi doesn't use hard physical force, but I'm not going to try to go into what it uses instead. I know way too little to say much about it. But I'll make a different note. From what I've seen, one of the major aspects to tai chi is using a small amount of force to deflect a large amount of force. By doing something like following the incoming punch and turning your body, you can deflect it and lead it away from hitting you without applying much force of your own. A lot of this stuff is probably beyond me, even if I've read about it, but I hope this helps and that someone will correct me if I'm made some error.

 

[Michlt]

In my school, push hands is not taught until one has been studying at least 2 years or more. The 12, 24, 48 empty hands forms are taught first then sword forms to get the feel of the extension of the movement beyond the hands.

From the beginning, my instructor has (briefly) demonstrated the martial application of the movements to clarify why the weight is on a particular foot and the arms and hands do particular things. It has been an enormous help to me for comprehending the postures.

:supcool:

 

[Trainwreck]

I dunno if this is legitimate or not (it's an eBook written by Eric Montaigue and foreworded by Dan Inosanto), but I have a .pdf file of T'ai Chi as a Fighting Art. You can get it at the following link, and do note that your computer needs to be able to handle .pdf files in order to view it.

http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gtg039i/Taichi.pdf

Note to mods: The book expressly states that it may be freely distributed so long as it remains unaltered and I do not charge anything for it.