Why Systema?

[NYCRonin]

Ok.
One of the 'skills' I have aquired from my studies is the ability to open pandoras box. (Ahh, Pandora - what a woman, I could tell you such stories!)

I will ask the forum members who practise Systema the following:
Why? Why this, of all training methodologies; did you decide this was the 'one'.
Of all the 'gin joints in all the world' - why did you come to this one? What keeps you here? What do you seek to attain here that you could not find elsewhere?

Now, here is the kicker question - if you care to/dare to answer:
What could cause you to leave our community?

I am sorry to restrict the answers to come from the Systema community - but I did not post this to the general MA community for a reason.
Please forgive me if you feel offended or left out.

Dear sweet Pandora - her box is wide open and I do not expect many answers from the effort.

It might, though; be very interesting.

 

[NoSuchChick]

Well, I chose Systema because it had a combat background which makes it real, but it could be learned without having to go through Ranger school. By this, I mean that it is a full contact martial art: no punching air, bags, or other objects. You know if you've hit someone, and you know if you've been hit. It's more honest.

Likewise, you don't have to be beaten to a pulp, and brought to "submit" to a "master" as a matter of course. You respect your instructor and seniors, not because they have a different colored piece of clothing, but because they can hit you harder.

I like the fact that this is not a martial art you can go and "do" for one hour a week, and then forget about until the next class. The work starts seeping into your muscles, and you find yourself moving in different ways in your everyday life, and in this way your life is enhanced. You really do live it.

Why would I ever leave Systema? I don't think I ever would stop doing this martial art, unless I could find a martial art which was more encompassing; and I don't expect that to happen (but I do keep an open mind). Regardless of what may happen in the Systema community, or with individuals or organizations, you can't take the knowledge of Systema away from a person; and so even if I didn't have buddies with whom to practice, I would always have Systema in my body.

Oh, and NYCRonin: watch out for that Pandora, she gets around!

Jennifer

 

[NoSuchChick]

Sorry to post again... misread your second question:

"What would cause you to leave our community?"

People. Like any community, if the people or the politics became bigger than the art I would probably work solitary or find another community. But that is the same with any art. It always comes back to the people and the politics.

Fortunately, Systema has a great core group of old-timers with hearts of gold. These are my mentors (NYCRonin).

Jennifer

 

[TAZ]

I'll take up the challenge of answering this one...

Why did I take up Systema over every other art?

The impact it has had on my overall life is so very difficult to encapsulate into a post and to be fair when I made my decision to train in the system I had no idea at just how far reaching the effects of that choice would go. So lets break the answer down into 3 parts..

why the initial choice?

I was looking for an art that was effective for me to defend myself and those I hold dear. I was not concerned about looking good or flattering my ego with a coloured strip of cloth, that someone else told me, meant I had achieved a certain proficiency.
The system had a complicated simplicity that instantly attracted me the movements seemed to easy (how wrong I was), the informal approach to training and the fact that these people were smiling while getting hit. In fact that raises another key attraction for me...I was told at my first lesson that we expect to get hit..this is not magic. There was a truth and honesty in the people training there with no one kidding themselves that 'yes that would work in the street' when it clearly wouldn't.

How did it evolve?

The more I trained the more I learnt how little I really knew. Each lesson was like being a kid in a candy store..with little nuggets being uncovered each time and each nugget slowly forming a larger picture. My whole perception changed..less agressive..more aware..happier.. the permiation into my everyday life was beneficial...and like no other art before me..I had a fire burining inside me to assimilate new experiences and knowledge like never before. Another key reason that my enthusiam grew is the wider systema community..the openess, the willingness to share, the depth of experience..the system has proved a great leveller for people from all different walks of life..there is one truth out on the mat or in the street and the people in this community strive to rediscover this truth everyday.


Why do I still train and plan to conintue to train?

The sense that I am a continual beginner, each day I learn something new about myself and 'my systema' the way the principles can be applied for me. The benefits it has brought to other areas of my life and continues to bring..and importantly the people I meet and have yet to meet.


What would stop me training?

Valid question and the answer sprang to the front of my mind as I read it...dilution and commercialistaion of the art. By dilution I mean changing the way we train to make it more appealing to the masses..losing its roots for the sake of the $ (tied into commercialisation). Commercialisation is breaking the art into a series of saleable packages that lose sight of the arts routes and it purpose. I can best explain this by a question I was asked the other day.. 'Dave why dont you teach a womens self defence class?' I answered that the classes that I teach will teach anyone to defend themselves irrespective of gender and to teach a 'women' specific class would force me to dilute the art to suit the market..something I am not prepared to do..the art works becuase of what it is...

One final thing that attracted me, kept me here but would be one of the reasons I would leave...the absence of politics..the infighting of people within their own style so prevalent in other arts.

Please excuse my ramblings that turned into a novel...but the question intrigued me..and I just let the words spill out..

Dave

 

[TAZ]

oops its catching NSC..

I missed one question...what was i hoping to find here that I could not find anywhere else...

I came looking for, found and discover more each day that which I was truly seeking...





Myself.

 

[ABN]

Why Systema? I was immediately impressed by an art that showed nothing but work. No dog and pony shows. No cult of personality built around an unapproachable "Master" who could be found on countless photos in the dojo, but who never seemed to actually be there. As a professional soldier it is also quite something to learn from an instructor who has seen the elephant. Countless tools run full page ads talking about how they trained SEAL Teams, or did "classified" work for Top Secret Counter Terror units, or ran the weekly Bingo game at the DELTA Force compound.
The art itself also suits me and my lifestyle. I've already been through basic training, I don't need the break you down and then build you back up mentality that seems to infect most of the schools in my area. I like the reality of contact. Pain isn't necessarily a bad thing and training to hit your target always made more sense to me than throwing a punch off to the side of your aiming point.
I like the lack of a rank structure. You're respected for your capabilities and devotion to the art. Newcomers are embraced here not subjected to white belt hazing.
Finally, it's the people. from the first day I logged in on the board you all have been nothing but helpful and welcoming. Even when I had dumb questions your patience was quite appreciated.

What would make me leave?
When it stopped being useful or when I stopped growing in the art.

 

[ABN]

Originally posted by NYCRonin


Dear sweet Pandora - her box is wide open

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


bite your tongue Andy, control yourself, remember to breathe, breathe......

 

[TAZ]

better wide open....then half open or half closed...depending on how optomistic you are...:asian:

 

[jellyman]

"Why this, of all training methodologies; did you decide this was the 'one'."

Up until my first year, I wasn't sure this was the one, but I was pretty sure it was better than what I had learned so far - we were delving into areas I had only read about until then, but now these concepts were being made real - I just didn't realize how real. Then I sparred someone else besides my instructor, and everything fell into place. My body reacted, and I sort of sat in the back seat, bemused. That was when I was convinced this really worked for me.


'Of all the 'gin joints in all the world' - why did you come to this one?'

Word of mouth - Furtry, to be precise.

' What keeps you here?'

If I don't get my minimal systema fix, I find I become ill and my old injuries flair up (no lie!). The more I do it, the better I feel, and the healthier I become. Beyond that, it's a lot of fun, and there's so much for me to learn, which I also think is important for mental health.

'What do you seek to attain here that you could not find elsewhere?'

Systema to me provides all the benefits of a combat sport with all the completeness of... systema! Although in the beginning I would have said jujutsu, but now I see systema as being more comprehensive than that - a much wider scope. Put another way, unlike most battlefield arts, systema is alive and used by real warriors today. Not only that, but it involves 'high-leve'l skills that most H2H courses never even touch on.

Now, here is the kicker question - if you care to/dare to answer:
What could cause you to leave our community?

If there was no one to train with, it would be hard to do much besides conditioning. I have asked myself what I'd do if for some reason systema was no longer an option, and it's a tough answer. There's so much of what I used to do that I no longer agree with, and it would be hard for me to bite my lip...

 

[Jackal]

I will ask the forum members who practise Systema the following:
Why? Why this, of all training methodologies; did you decide this was the 'one'.
Of all the 'gin joints in all the world' - why did you come to this one? What keeps you here? What do you seek to attain here that you could not find elsewhere?

One word…

Truth.

The first second I saw Vladimir, I thought (to be honest) the movement looked strange, almost silly.

The first second I FELT Vladimir however, I knew this was truth, this was honest, this was real. I can’t make that claim for any other martial system in which I’ve trained (of which I have a decent list for my age). Systema was what I’d been looking for in all my years of training. It successfully dissolved the “art” and just left “me”. I always felt that I was tripping over myself with every other system I previously studied. From day one in Systema, I could employ everything Vladimir taught me. After my first week in Toronto, I finally “got it” and was able to start training for real. I have no reason to look back (well, maybe to chuckle, shake my head and be thankful for my good fortune).

Through this system, I have met the finest group of people that I could ever hope to train with. Fellow truth seekers, of which the world seems to have so few. I know I’ll always have people to train with and learn from as long as they’re all still out there.

Now, here is the kicker question - if you care to/dare to answer:
What could cause you to leave our community?

I could never stop training in The System. It is “my system” now. I’ll take it with me wherever I go. As for leaving the community…the one thing that could ever turn me away would be dishonesty. Not personal dishonesty; let people act as they may so long as they do me (and my own) no harm. I mean dishonesty of the training. Watering down, commercializing, and lowering standards to accommodate “hobbyists”. That seemed to be the plague of many a popular martial art. I have left more than one school and sadly, more than one community because of that exact thing happening.

To my fellow truth seekers...thanks for existing. Before Systema, I'd thought I'd never find you.


-Jackal

 

[khadaji]

Why? Why this, of all training methodologies; did you decide this was the 'one'.

A good friend of mine was the instructor, and also primarly the teaching style. Personaly teaching style is very important to me. Most places use a methode that is just not very compadible with my personality. I hate all the formal stuff like bowing, and then having to memories all the words of some other language that describe the moves. I am not good at language stuff, and when you mix differnt arts it gets confusing. Eventualy becasue i just cant remember what one move is called I am not permited to progress in training. System seems to accept that you can full well punch even if you can't remember the name of that punch.

Of all the 'gin joints in all the world' - why did you come to this one? What keeps you here? What do you seek to attain here that you could not find elsewhere?

Its useful, I pregressed farther in one year of systema then all my other arts I tried. Also It added to my sword work in Fencing. I developed a wonderful mobility.

Now, here is the kicker question - if you care to/dare to answer:
What could cause you to leave our community?

Well, I have left it. But not by choice. There is no longer anyone in Minnesota who teaches it. There is only 6 of use who have had a yearexperience here. I want to continue, but I am only able to train on my own.

 

[Todd]

As I read each Rob's questions, the answers to each question came to me immediately in the way that I wanted to write them down....then I scrolled down and read Jackal's reply and then said sonna of b*tch. Jackal, you wrote exactly what I was thinking, so now I won't answer those questions.

I will open that proverbial box and say that yes Systema will be watered down. Lately, I have seen the aikido people trying to align themselves with Systema(Hey! it's just like aikido, Russian Aiki etc.) and I feel that this would be a mistake to let this happen. In my own opinion Aikido has been so water down over the years that most Aikidoka couldn't fight there way out of a wet paper bag. Don't mistaken our "Soft Work" for " your Gentle Way". Systema is, and always should be a brutal and efficient combat system, period! Not some "hobbyist martial art.

I know these comments will not sit right with most people, so be it, but they are my opinions and viewpoints. Only time will tell, but I can assure you that my vision of Systema will remain pure, and that is brutal and efficient.

 

[NYCRonin]

Interesting responses - so far...so good!

Anyone else 'of the community' care to respond?

Please note - my asking the above is not just academic.
I have my reasons for posting the questions - and the reasons will become clear as this thread grows.

Rob

 

[Jay Bell]

Why Systema?

Because it felt right. Even watching it gave me a feeling that I always longed for in previous training...and never came close to scratching. A lot of people from my previous training had (and still do) an enormous problem with me leaving for Systema. However, the choice was for me.

Why would I leave?

If politics and backstabbing/trashtalking became an everyday part of life, I'd have no problem at all walking away. I did it before...

 

[Furtry]

Rob, stiring it up again I see
1) It works
2) It works
3&4) Ditto
5) If it didn't work:shrug:

 

[TAZ]

Furty,
each time you manage to put systema into your answers..minimum effort maximum effect.

ROBG, where would be with out the likes of you asking the questions no one else will..

Dave

 

[David]

Originally posted by NYCRonin Why? Why this, of all training methodologies; did you decide this was the 'one'.

I stumbled into Systema from an online Krav Maga board, actually. Some people were badmouthing the System, and then one of the senior/respectable board members came in and said "Uh...guys...let's end this discussion, I just went and 'sparred' with a Systema guy. He took me apart! Nothing worked against him!"

As was to be expected my eyes went googly and proceeded to shoot out of my skull - until that point, Krav Maga was the most efficient, useable art that I had ever found. I did a few internet searches and wound up on Arthur's recently deceased Web Board. A month later, I set up my first class (I'm not going into the first class, mainly because it consisted of everyone else doing the work, and me standing there gaping or lying on the ground gaping or listening to an explanation, gaping. I don't think I've ever gaped so much - I mean, it's SO SIMPLE! SO OBVIOUS! The one word to describe it is "duuhhhh." And yet, despite all the simplicity, I couldn't do it :-D. I tried the dirty little streetfighting tricks I had learned a while back on all the students, and simply couldn't do anything but fall a whole lot. I thought about nothing else for the following week, until my next class.

Why did I stay? I wanted to be 'sure,' so I kept looking for something "better" for a few weeks after my first class. I simply didn't find anything that looked "normal" - after what I had seen, it was all contrived and complicated and WRONG - the human body didn't want to DO all that stuff to defend itself! In my meager 16 years of life, I have never found a community quite like this, which is another reason I have vowed to stay for ever . The people are intelligent, they understand the body and the mind, and, well, they're simply friendly, warm, good hearted people! I had never found anything like this; such nonjudgmental and simple respect. They didn't need belts. They didn't need bowing. It was all in the movement.

Now, here is the kicker question - if you care to/dare to answer:
What could cause you to leave our community?

Fakeness. If it became a Russian McDojo - teachers being rushed through certification courses, the UNDERSTANDING being rushed. If the community became huge, and the intimate/instant friendships were to cease. If the "you're a systema guy! No way! Sure, stay at my place!" went away.

As someone before so perfectly said: If it became fake, I'd simply pack up my Systema and leave. There is no use in studying false knowlege and instilling false security. That's how people die before they should.

Sorry for the massive rant.

-David

 

[NYCRonin]

Rant accepted - excellent post, David.

I am still hoping that a few more community members will join in, paricularly some of my better known collegues.
I know some of ya hate when I post a question like this - just trust there is a purpose. Dont be shy or conspicuous by your absence...please be generous with your experience and opinion. (Even if its to say this whole question is a waste of time).

 

[Jay Bell]

I know some of ya hate when I post a question like this

Not I...you've always had great questions to talk about, Rob.

 

[Furtry]

Originally posted by TAZ
Furty,
each time you manage to put systema into your answers..minimum effort maximum effect.

ROBG, where would be with out the likes of you asking the questions no one else will..

Dave

I'm just too lazy to type alot:shrug: